[CALL TO ORDER & ROLL CALL]
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6:00, CALL TO ORDER SPECIAL CALLED MEETING OF THE BEDFORD PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION ON TODAY, THURSDAY, APRIL 18TH, 2024. START WITH OUR ROLL CALL STARTING WITH COMMISSIONER GALLENSTEIN.
[EXECUTIVE SESSION]
5.51.001, TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE.APPLICATION OF OPEN GOVERNMENT LAWS AND LIABILITY MATTERS.
WE WILL ADJOURN FROM HERE AND RETURN AFTER OUR EXECUTIVE SESSION.
WE RECONVENE THE SPECIAL CALLED MEETING OF THE BEDFORD PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
[2. Discuss draft bylaws and rules of procedure for the Planning & Zoning Commission, direct staff accordingly, and possible action related thereto.]
RULES OF PROCEDURE FOR THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.DIRECT STAFF ACCORDINGLY AND POSSIBLE ACTION RELATED THERETO.
BEFORE WES COMES UP JUST AS A PRELUDE TO THIS.
STRUCTURAL QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW WE RUN OUR COMMISSION AND WHAT ARE SOME PROCEDURES.
MOST NOTABLY, SOME TIME AGO WHEN THE VICE CHAIR AND I WERE BOTH NOT HERE, WE REALIZED THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PROCEDURES TO WHO CHAIRS THE MEETING AND HOW DOES THE MEETING HAPPEN IF THE CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR ARE NOT HERE? AND THAT WAS KIND OF A FLAG OR, WELL, WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THAT.
WE DID LEARN THAT THERE HAD BEEN IN THE PAST SOME YEARS PAST SOME SET OF BYLAWS FOR CITY BEDFORD, P AND Z, AND THAT VERY, VERY MANY CITIES IN THE STATE OF TEXAS DO HAVE BYLAWS FOR A, P AND Z, PARTICULARLY IF THE P AND Z IS FORMATTED AND AND DIRECTED TO BE BE POPULATED BY THAT CITY'S CITY CHARTER.
PLUS THE FACT THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE ONE FOR THE CITY OF BEDFORD OTHER CITIES DID MOST OF THIS DOCUMENT AS WE GO THROUGH IT, EXCEPT FOR THE PUNCTUATION AND THE GRAMMATICAL SPELLING ERRORS THAT WERE CORRECTED.
AND THIS WAY THESE RULES AND BYLAWS, SHOULD THESE BECOME ADOPTED, WOULD AUTOMATICALLY CHANGE TO CONTINUE TO BE IN COMPLIANCE IN PERPETUITY TO THE BEDFORD CITY CHARTER.
SO. SO IF THE THE VOTERS CHOSE TO MAKE A CHARTER AMENDMENT, THAT ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THESE ITEMS, THIS PARTICULAR DOCUMENT FOR P AND Z WOULD AUTOMATICALLY BE UPDATED BECAUSE IT REFERENCES THOSE PIECES IN THE CITY CHARTER THAT RELATE TO PLANNING AND ZONING.
YOU LOOKED AT ME AND I JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW.
TURN THE MIC ON. JENNIFER'S GOING TO KIND OF GO THROUGH THIS WITH YOU, SO IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ME.
THAT'S FINE. YEAH, BUT THAT'S WHY.
THIS WILL BE SOMETHING THAT'LL BE A CITY DOCUMENT GOING FORWARD.
AND AS YOU GO INTO SOME OF THE NUTS AND BOLTS, IT JUST, YOU KNOW, IDENTIFIES A QUORUM.
I MEAN HOW P AND Z WAS PUT TOGETHER, Y WAS PUT TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS, NUMBER OF OFFICERS OFFICER ELECTIONS, YOU KNOW, ALL THOSE KIND OF THINGS AS WE GO DOWN THROUGH HERE.
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SO WITH, WITH THAT AND FULL DISCLOSURE WHENEVER WE HAD THAT ISSUE FOR WHO'S SUPPOSED TO DO WHAT AT THE MEETING, WES AND I TALKED ABOUT WHAT ARE OUR RULES, YOU KNOW, OR WHERE DOES IT SAY HOW TO DO THIS? AND THAT'S WHEN WE REALIZED THERE WASN'T ANYTHING SPECIFICALLY.SO SO STAFF CAME UP WITH, AT MY REQUEST, AND WES WORK CAME UP WITH A DRAFT.
WHEN JOSE WAS STILL HERE, HE CAME UP WITH THE ORIGINAL DRAFT FOR THIS.
WE STARTED LOOKING AT IT AND THEN COMMISSIONER OTTO AND I LOOKED AT IT, AND COMMISSIONER OTTO SPENT A LOT OF TIME LOOKING AT THE CHARTER AND FINDING ALL THOSE P AND Z ITEMS. AND THEN AFTER WE HAD GONE TO THAT TRAINING SESSION IN NORTH RICHLAND HILLS ABOUT PLANNING AND ZONING AND HOW THE FORMAT OF PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSIONS ARE PUT TOGETHER.
THEY HAD. YOU KNOW, PROCEDURES AND UH BYLAWS FOR MANY OF THEIR CITIES, SO THAT RESEARCH ALSO HELPED US TOO.
WITH THAT PREFACE, THAT'S WHERE THIS DOCUMENT CAME FROM.
AND HOPEFULLY WE WILL HAVE DONE SOME WORK HERE THAT WILL APPLY TO P&Z COMMISSIONS.
AND WITH THAT, I'LL QUIT TALKING AND LET BRANT WALK US THROUGH THIS.
I MEAN, YOU GAVE A PRETTY GOOD EXPLANATION.
I DON'T HAVE A I DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC PRESENTATION FOR THIS.
I THOUGHT IT WAS PRETTY THOROUGH.
SO I THINK THIS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF HOW YOU HAVE CONSOLIDATED ALL OF THE INFORMATION THAT IS IN THE CODE INTO YOUR OWN RULES.
I ADDED REFERENCES TO THE SPECIFIC SECTION NUMBERS SO THAT IF ANYONE WANTED TO SEE THE SOURCE MATERIAL, IT'S ALL CROSS REFERENCED IN THIS DOCUMENT. I THINK THE ONLY QUESTION COMMENT I HAD HAD TO DO WITH CONTACTING THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, WHETHER YOU ALL WANT TO ADOPT A SPECIFIC PROCEDURE ON HOW TO CONTACT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, WHETHER YOU WANT TO GO THROUGH STAFF.
AND WE HAVEN'T HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH COUNCIL.
SO CANDIDLY, IT MAY BE PREMATURE TO TALK ABOUT THIS, BUT YOU ALL WILL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
I HAVE SOME CITIES WHERE MEMBERS OF P&Z ARE ALLOWED TO JUST CALL ME DIRECTLY.
OBVIOUSLY, WE BILL BY THE HOUR.
AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE SCENARIOS WHERE STAFF NEEDS TO KNOW WHAT THE CONCERNS ARE, EVEN IF THEY'RE LEGAL IN NATURE, AND IT'S PREFERABLE TO GO THROUGH WES AND HAVE HIM FORWARD THE QUESTION ON TO ME.
WHERE IS THAT IN THE DOCUMENT? THAT IS IN WHICH PARAGRAPH? FIVE EIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU.
IF I CAN ASK A QUESTION HERE, MR. CHAIRMAN. I'M.
WE HAVEN'T HAD A DOCUMENT LIKE THIS.
AND YOU SAID IT'S ALL THESE PIECES AND PARTS ARE SCATTERED.
I'M ASSUMING THAT THIS JUST DIDN'T COME OUT OF THE ETHER.
OKAY. I THINK A COUPLE OF FOLKS ON P&Z SPENT THEIR TIME PUTTING THIS TOGETHER, AND I THINK IT IT TURNED OUT VERY WELL.
I HAVE CORRECTED REFERENCES THAT HAVE COME FROM OTHER CITIES THAT ARE NOT APPLICABLE TO BEDFORD.
THERE IS NO SUCH RULE FOR BEDFORD.
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SO IF YOU ALL ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THE SUBSTANTIVE INFORMATION IN HERE, I HAVE MADE SURE THAT IT IS LEGALLY ACCURATE.OKAY. IS IT FOR INSTANCE, I SAW ONE, AND THE REASON I REMEMBER THIS IS BECAUSE THE FORMER CHAIRMAN, WHEN I CAME ON, I THINK HE HAD BEEN CHAIRMAN FOR 14 YEARS FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. VERY NICE GUY.
YEAH, BUT I NOMINATED THE CURRENT CHAIRPERSON BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS TIME FOR A CHANGE.
I'M ASSUMING THAT CAME FROM THAT CAME OTHER CITY, MAYBE IN THIS AREA.
I'M NOT SAYING IT'S GOOD OR BAD, I'M JUST SAYING.
RIGHT. BECAUSE I THOUGHT BEING ON 14 WAS MAYBE A LITTLE TOO LONG.
SO. YEAH. SO THAT LET'S SEE HERE.
THE THE TENURE OF THE CHAIR, I BELIEVE, COMES FROM YOUR ORDINANCE.
RIGHT. SO ANY OF THOSE THINGS, ESPECIALLY IN THE FIRST FEW ARTICLES, AND THAT'S WHY I TRY TO LIST THE SOURCE SECTION SO THAT YOU SAY WE WEREN'T FOLLOWING THE ORDINANCE BEFORE.
OKAY. SO I HAD A QUESTION UNDER 2.2, AND THE MEMBERSHIP WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT PLANNING AND ZONING IS ONE OF THE FEW COMMISSIONS THAT HAS ALTERNATES.
CORRECT. I HAVEN'T, I HAVE NOT BEEN TO ANY OTHER BORDER COMMISSION, SO I DON'T RECALL.
CBA DOES OR WHATEVER YOU CALL IT NOW.
RIGHT. THIS LANGUAGE IS RIGHT STRAIGHT OUT OF THE ORDINANCE.
YEAH. BUT IS THERE OR DOES THERE NEED TO BE A PROCEDURAL PROGRESSION OF WHAT HAPPENS TO THE ALTERNATE?NO, THERE NEVER HAS BEEN.
THE RULES WE HAD IN PLACE BEFORE, WHICH A LOT OF THIS WAS BASED OFF OF, THERE WAS NO PROGRESSION.
IT WAS COUNCIL DOES WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.
THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE.
YES. AND ANY ONE OF US COULD BE REMOVED BY THE VOTE OF COUNCIL.
AND THAT'S IT, RIGHT? WE SERVE AT THEIR PLEASURE.
YEAH. SO ANY RULES THAT I PROPOSE, RULES THAT I SAW IN HERE THAT MAY HAVE BEEN TAKEN FROM ANOTHER CITY THAT WERE INCONSISTENT WITH WHAT OUR CHARTER AND OUR CODE OF ORDINANCES SAY. I DELETED THEM SO YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO IMPOSE A REQUIREMENT ON YOURSELF.
FOR INSTANCE, THE THE CODE OF ORDINANCES SAYS THAT THE COUNCIL APPOINTS THE CHAIR.
AND SO I REMOVED ANY INFORMATION IN HERE THAT SUGGESTED THAT THE COMMISSION USURPS THAT RULE BASICALLY FROM COUNCIL. WELL, BUT IF I READ THIS RIGHT WE'RE THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE BECAUSE THE CHARTER SAYS ONE THING, THE ORDINANCE SAYS ANOTHER IN TERMS OF THE THE CHAIR.
BUT WE'RE THE EXCEPTION TO THAT PARTICULAR RULE OF THE COUNCIL APPOINTING CHAIRS.
I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. I'M NOT AS FAMILIAR WITH THE OTHER BOARDS.
YES, BUT I'M GOING TO AGREE WITH YOU.
YEAH, I CAN TELL YOU THAT BECAUSE I'VE LOOKED AT THIS.
SO AND ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER WE WERE IN COMPLIANCE TO START WITH PROBABLY NOT.
OKAY. BECAUSE THESE RULES, I MEAN, THEY'VE ALL BEEN THERE.
THEY JUST NEVER WERE PUT TOGETHER INTO ONE DOCUMENT.
YEAH, THEY WEREN'T PUTTING ONE DOCUMENT.
RIGHT. IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO FIND EVERYTHING.
IT'S KIND OF A WILD GOOSE CHASE, BECAUSE YOU GOT TO GO TO CHAPTER 50 OR 90 OR THE CHARTER.
WELL, YOU LITERALLY CUT AND PASTE AND WE DELIVER IT TO THE WEST.
IT WAS LITERALLY TAPED TOGETHER.
THIS IS THE ONLY LOCATION THAT YOU WILL FIND ALL OF THE RULES APPLICABLE TO YOU IN ONE PLACE.
IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT THE ITEMS THAT HAVE BEEN LINED OUT ARE JUST A I WANT TO SAY IT A CLEAN UP WHERE IT SHOULD BE BEGIN WITH A CAPITAL LETTER OR THOSE CHANGES THAT I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE LINE OUT MEANS.
IN ALL, I THINK WHAT HE'S DONE IS CAPITALIZED, AND HE'S DONE.
HE'S HE'S CORRECTED OUR GRAMMAR, I GUESS PROBABLY.
YEAH, PROBABLY THE BEST WAY TO SAY IT.
RIGHT, RIGHT. I SO I REALLY DIDN'T AUTHOR ANY OF THE RULES THEMSELVES.
AND IF THE SOURCE WAS IN THE CITY CODE, I REFERENCED IT SO THAT IF THERE'S ANY QUESTION LIKE, IS THIS CONSISTENT WITH OUR ORDINANCES, YOU NOW HAVE THE SECTION NUMBER TO GO TO TO MAKE SURE.
[00:15:01]
AND ON THE BACK PAGE YOU HAVE THE REFERENCES.AND SO AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE BACK PAGE, YOU'LL SEE WHERE THOSE THINGS ARE REFERENCED.
CORRECT. SO I MEAN, THAT'S LIKE I SAID, WE LITERALLY TOOK THE ORDINANCE, WE LOOKED AT THE CITY CHARTER AND JUST CUT AND PASTED IT. SO ANOTHER QUESTION IS TWO ABSENCES REALISTIC? THAT'S THAT IS PART OF I THINK IT'S THE ORDINANCE OF CHARTER.
RIGHT. AND I THINK THE REASON THEY, THE CITY COUNCIL DID THAT IS BECAUSE ONCE UPON A TIME, I THINK BRUCE COULD ATTEST TO THIS FACT THAT YOU HAD A HARD TIME MAKING A QUORUM BEFORE THE COUNCIL DECIDED TO GET RID OF EVERYBODY AND REAPPOINT.
NO. WELL, I'M JUST SAYING IT COULD BE AN EXCUSED ABSENCES AS OPPOSED TO ABSENCES.
YEAH, I CAN'T DEBATE WHAT IS WRITTEN AS LAW.
AS YOU SAID EARLIER, YOU ALL COULD BE REMOVED WITHOUT CAUSE AT ANY TIME.
SO WE'VE GOT THE RULES CITED AS THEY APPEAR IN THE CITY CODE.
BUT YEAH, EVERY BOARD IS GOVERNED BY THAT PARTICULAR RULE.
THAT'S RIGHT. AND WHETHER THEY ABIDE BY IT OR NOT I DON'T KNOW.
I KNOW YOU'RE SAYING IT COULD BE ARBITRARY AND COULD BE NOT.
WELL, JUST JUST TO CLARIFY, THERE IS A CITY PROCESS AND IT'S IN THE CODE ABOUT WHEN A MEMBER OF A BOARD. HAS MISSED TWO MEETINGS WITHIN THE CALENDAR YEAR.
THE CITY SECRETARY IS REQUIRED TO NOTIFY THE CHAIR OF THAT BOARD OR COMMISSION.
IS IT UP TO THE DISCRETION OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OR COMMISSION TO THEN DECIDE WHETHER ONE A LETTER EVEN GOES TO THAT BOARD MEMBER, AND TWO, IF THERE'S ANY ACTION TO GO ON BEYOND THAT.
WE'VE HAD SOME ABSENCES OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS AND LETTERS WERE SENT OUT, BUT ALSO THOSE COMMISSIONERS PROVIDED, TO YOUR POINT, INFORMATION ABOUT WHERE THEY WERE.
WE JUST PUT THAT IN THE FILE SO THAT DOWN THE ROAD SOMEBODY SAYS, WELL, SO AND SO MISSED.
IT'S LIKE, WELL, YEAH, BUT THEY WERE IN THE HOSPITAL FOR A MONTH.
RIGHT. OR YOU KNOW, WE HAD A COUNCIL MEMBER YEARS AGO THAT HAD THAT SAME ISSUE.
AND IT GIVES EVERYBODY AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY, WELL, THIS PERSON IS IN ESSENCE VACATED THEIR POSITION AND A PROCESS STARTS. SO NOT I DIDN'T WANT ME TO GET THAT FAR IN THE WEEDS, BUT THERE'S MORE PROCESS THAN JUST WHAT THAT SAYS.
YEAH, WELL, AND WE MEET TWICE A MONTH.
SOME OF THESE OTHER BOARDS MEET ONCE A MONTH OR MAYBE LESS.
JUST AS A POINT OF CLARIFICATION, THE CURRENT ORDINANCE SECTIONS 9.019.029.03.
IS THERE ANYTHING IN THAT LANGUAGE THAT PRECLUDES US FROM DOING OUR BUSINESS? AND AS WE HAVE BEEN DOING IT.
NO, NO, I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING.
AND JUST AS A I'M A FAN OF SIMPLIFICATION.
SURE. AND WE'VE BEEN DOING FOLLOWING THESE RULES FOR ABOUT 60 YEARS.
AND MY QUESTION WOULD BE DO WE REALLY NEED TO CHANGE A LOT? SO SOMETIMES I FOUND I'VE WORKED A LOT IN CONTRACTUAL LAW AND FOUND SOMETIMES WHEN YOU ADD A LOT MORE LANGUAGE, YOU'VE MANACLED YOURSELF SOMETIMES TO THINGS THAT YOU DON'T REALLY WANT TO HAVE.
SO I LIKE LESS LANGUAGE AND I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED THAT WE'VE.
SO. SO THE WAY I SAW THESE RULES IS THERE'S REALLY TWO PARTS.
ONE IS JUST RECITING ALL THE RULES THAT COUNCIL HAS DICTATED TO P AND Z IN THE CITY CODE.
SO THE FIRST FEW PAGES COULD BE DELETED IF YOU WANTED TO.
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AND SO THAT EVERYONE ON P AND Z HAS ALL THE INFORMATION.SO EVERY ONE OF THESE PARAGRAPHS IN THE BEGINNING THAT STARTS WITH PURSUANT TO SECTION SUCH AND SUCH OF THE CITY CODE OR THE CHARTER THE LANGUAGE EMBEDDED IN HERE HAS NOT BEEN MODIFIED AT ALL.
IT'S JUST BEEN COPIED AND PASTED INTO THE DOCUMENT.
IT'S REALLY AS YOU GET FURTHER INTO THE DOCUMENT WHERE YOU'RE READING ABOUT SORT OF THE HOW THE MEETING IS HELD AND, YOU KNOW, CALLING, OPENING THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT SHOULD MEMORIALIZE YOUR CURRENT PRACTICE.
UNLESS YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR CURRENT PRACTICES.
I'VE GOT A FEW COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS ON SOME OF THIS IN HERE.
VERY EARLY ON WE DEFINED THE CITY COUNCIL, AND THEN LATER IN THE DOCUMENT, WE USE CITY COUNCIL OR COUNCIL, AND WE DEFINE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND THEN USE THE TERM COMMISSION THEREAFTER.
COMMISSION. ABSOLUTELY. WE COULD DO THAT.
CERTAINLY. WE STARTED OFF ON 2.1.
WE HAD IDENTIFY SEVEN CITIZENS FROM THE CITY TO BE IN THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
2.2 ON DOWN THERE SHALL BE APPOINTED TO AND I WOULD ADD THE WORD ADDITIONAL ALTERNATE MEMBERS, BECAUSE IT MAY BE CONFUSING THAT THOSE TWO MIGHT BE IN THE SEVEN.
THEY'RE RIGHT OUT OF THE CITY CHARTER.
UNTOUCHED. THEY SURE DON'T MAKE SENSE.
I MEAN, WELL, READ IT EITHER WAY.
WE AGREE. SEVEN MEMBERS AND TWO OF THEM ARE ALTERNATES.
WE AGREE. BUT SEE, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT.
ALL RIGHT? YEAH, THAT IS WHAT IT'S WRITTEN.
THAT IS WHAT'S WRITTEN. THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT.
YEAH. WE TAKE OUT THE MENTION OF THE SECRETARY'S POSITION IN THERE AND DID NOT PUT IT.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY DEFINITION THERE OF THE SECRETARY.
NO, IT SAYS IN HERE, I THINK THAT IT THAT THE MINUTES WILL BE KEPT BY STAFF, BY STAFF.
THE SECRETARY WILL BE A STAFF MEMBER AND MINUTES ARE KEPT BY THE SECRETARY OF THE COMMISSION.
BUT IT ALSO IDENTIFIES THAT THE SECRETARY WILL BE STAFF MEMBER.
RIGHT. AND THAT ALSO IS STRAIGHT OUT.
IT DOES SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE SECRETARY BEING A STAFF MEMBER.
RIGHT. THAT WAS THE ONLY ONLY MENTION OF HERE.
AGAIN, WE REALIZED, LIKE STEVE MENTIONED, WE REALIZED THAT WE COULD NOT GENERATE A DOCUMENT AS A P AND Z COMMISSION THAT ATTEMPTED TO OVERRIDE THE WORDING IN THE CITY CHARTER, RIGHT, OR THE CODES OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES.
SO ANY OF THESE PARAGRAPHS THAT STARTS WITH PURSUANT TO SECTION RIGHT.
OKAY. EVERYTHING THAT FOLLOWS FROM THAT IS A WORD FOR WORD.
COPY AND PASTE FROM THE CITY CODE OR THE CITY CHARTER.
SOME OF THE OTHER BOARDS IN THE CITY, IN THEIR ORDINANCES, THEY SAY THE THEIR BOARD WILL APPOINT A SECRETARY WHO WILL KEEP MINUTES, NOT A STAFF MEMBER.
RIGHT. BUT IT'S DELINEATED THREE OTHER BOARDS THAT THE CITY HAS.
RIGHT. AND THIS IS A DIFFERENT DELINEATION OF WHAT THE CITY HAS DONE.
OKAY. CORRECT. TWO OTHER COMMENTS.
ALL RIGHT. UNDER SECTION 4.1 WE'RE DEFINING THE DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES.
AND NUMBER THREE IS TO EXERCISE CONTROL OVER PLATTING AND SUBDIVIDING.
COULD YOU EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT IS EXERCISING CONTROL.
YOU HAVE THE APPROVAL AND DENIAL AUTHORITY RESTS WITH P AND Z.
DON'T WE ALSO HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR CONDUCTING A PUBLIC HEARING? AND THAT'S. I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THERE AS WELL.
YEAH, I MEAN, WE CAN ADD IT, BUT YEAH, IT'S I THINK IT'S PART AND PARCEL OF AND THE LAST I HAVE IS 6.10 ON THE MEMBERS HIGHLY ENCOURAGED FROM, FROM ENCOURAGED TO REFRAIN FROM PARTICIPATING IN DISCUSSIONS RELATED TO ET CETERA, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. AND THERE AND INSTEAD OF BEING HIGHLY ENCOURAGED TO REFRAIN,
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WE ARE GOING TO PROHIBIT THAT OR WE JUST LEAVE IT IN AS SO WE CAN'T.WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO PROHIBIT A FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT OF SPEAKING OUTSIDE OF A MEETING.
THAT'S WHY IT SAYS HIGHLY ENCOURAGED, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT THE DOCUMENT TO BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL ON ITS FACE, ON ADOPTION, THAT LANGUAGE WAS KIND OF SUPPLIED TO US BY THE ETHICS PERSON FROM AMERICAN PLANNING.
ISN'T THAT RIGHT WES? WHEN WE HAD THAT DISCUSSION WITH HIM.
BUT THE REASON WHY IT DIDN'T SAY PROHIBIT IS BECAUSE OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT.
COMMMISSIONER OTTO, YOU HAVE ANYTHING? NO. I JUST THINK THAT WE NEED TO THINK FORWARD.
BECAUSE IF WE'RE NOT SITTING IN THIS CHAIR.
YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE WHO COME BEHIND US, YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY'RE APPOINTED, GET THE SET OF RULES, HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY, WHOEVER THAT MAY BE AT THAT TIME WITH THESE RULES.
HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO DO THIS LAST CHARTER CHANGE? WELL, I MEAN, WE'RE STILL ABOUT READY TO VOTE ON SOME, RIGHT? OH MY GOSH. YEAH, THAT TOOK A LONG TIME.
YES, BUT BUT THINK OF THE FUTURE.
IF YOU'RE A NEWLY APPOINTED PLANNING ZONING COMMISSIONER, HAVEN'T HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO A TRAINING OTHER THAN THE OPEN MEETINGS THING, THAT RIGHT TURN THE GENERAL PUTS ON LINE.
YES. OR CAN'T ASK QUESTIONS FOR THAT THOUGH.
YEAH, YOU CAN'T ASK QUESTIONS ON THAT ONE.
BUT A PERSON WHO HAS THIS WILL KIND OF AT LEAST HAVE A CLUE OF WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING.
RIGHT? AND IF THE COUNCIL IS INTERVIEWING PEOPLE, THEY COULD PROBABLY GIVE THEM THIS DOCUMENT.
SO CAN YOU LIVE WITH THIS, THESE RULES AND REGULATIONS.
RIGHT. AND IF YOU CAN'T, WELL, MAYBE YOU NEED TO BE ON ANOTHER BOARD.
POINT EARLIER ABOUT PAPERWORK.
IT'S A LITTLE ODOROUS TO GENERATE, YOU KNOW, A DOCUMENT JUST TO MAKE MORE PAPER.
BUT WE REALLY FELT LIKE THIS REALLY MAYBE WASN'T GENERATING A LOT OF NEW STUFF.
BUT THAT WE REALIZE THAT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ME, ABOUT ANYBODY ELSE.
BUT LIKE WHEN I CAME ON, NOBODY SHARED WITH ME, EVEN AS A NEW COMMISSIONER.
WHAT'S IN THE THE CHARTER, HOW THE P&Z OPERATES.
AND THAT WAS DIFFERENT STAFF AND ALL THAT THEN.
BECAUSE EVEN LIKE TONIGHT'S TRAINING, THAT DIDN'T USED TO HAPPEN AT ALL.
YOU JUST HEAR YOU'RE ON SIT DOWN.
AND IT SEEMED IT SEEMED NOT FAIR CURRENTLY IN LONG TERM TO NOT PROVIDE PEOPLE WITH INFORMATION BEFORE YOU SAY, OH, BY THE WAY, YOU YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITHOUT EVER TELLING THEM THIS IS WHAT IT IS.
THE ONLY OTHER THING I WANT TO SAY IS I DO WES I WOULD LIKE TO WES AND BRYN.
I WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK AND AND REVISIT.
JUST THAT THAT ONE SECTION BECAUSE WE JUST WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THAT.
WHO SELECTS THE CHAIRMAN FOR INSTANCE, WE HAD A DEVIATION.
OH, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE RESEARCH THREE TWO IN THAT SECTION AND THE WORDING BEFORE WE DO THIS BECAUSE WE JUST TALKED ABOUT TWO CONFLICTING THINGS.
DOES COUNCIL DO THE CHAIRMAN OR DOES P AND Z AND EVERYTHING? WE SAW P AND Z WAS SUPPOSED TO DO THEIR OWN COUNCIL DOESN'T APPOINT THAT.
SO THAT'S THE ONLY THING I'VE RUN INTO AND I WAS SURPRISED AT.
SO THAT SHOULD AT THREE TWO SHOULD BE A DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE CODE.
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I DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO A COMPUTER THOUGH, I'M AFRAID.OH THAT'S FINE. I ASKED THE CITY SECRETARY ABOUT THAT.
IN THAT ROOM. I ASKED THE CITY SECRETARY ABOUT THAT, AND HE SAID, THAT'S THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.
THE P AND Z IS IF YOU LOOK AT TWO ONE AND THREE TWO.
NOW, YOU ALL MIGHT HAVE A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION, BUT THAT'S I SEE OKAY.
RIGHT. SO THAT IS IN, YEAH THAT'S TOUGH.
THAT IS A A CONFLICT BECAUSE AND THE CHARTER IS GOING TO PREVAIL.
TO YOUR POINT I CAN DELETE 3.2 AND WE CAN GO, YOU KNOW, FOLLOW THE GUIDANCE IN 9.01 OF THE CITY CHARTER.
LET EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
SO WE'RE ELIMINATING THE THE TERM OF THE OF THE CHAIRMAN IF WE ELIMINATE 3.2.
SO THAT PROVISION IS NOT IN CONFLICT WITH THE CHARTER.
SO IT'S JUST THE POINT ABOUT ELECTING THE CHAIRMAN.
SO THE CHARTER SAYS YOU ALL ELECT THE CHAIRMAN.
AND THE CITY CODE SAYS COUNCIL APPOINTS THE CHAIRMAN.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE REST OF THE LANGUAGE IS SOMEHOW NOT APPLICABLE.
RIGHT? OH, OKAY, I THINK I KNOW WHAT YOU SAID.
YEAH. SO. SO I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS SECTION TWO, DASH ONE, SEVEN THREE IS ONLY PREEMPTED.
TO THE EXTENT IT TALKS ABOUT HOW THE CHAIR IS APPOINTED, AND CAN WE PUT THAT LANGUAGE IN THERE? BECAUSE IF WE TAKE THIS OUT, THEN WE'RE ESSENTIALLY TAKING SOMETHING THAT THE ORDINANCE OR CHARTER ADDRESSES, RIGHT.
SO MAYBE. YEAH, I MEAN, SO YOU CAN LEGAL WORD IT.
WHY DON'T I DO THAT. WE CAN WE CAN LEAVE ALL OF IT IN.
THAT WOULD BE BETTER BECAUSE THEN WE'RE KIND OF GETTING WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER.
AND THEN THAT LEAVES EVERYTHING ELSE IN.
AND IT'S A IT REMAINS A DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE CODE.
I'M VERY HAPPY WITH THE CURRENT CHAIRMAN I NOMINATED HIM WHAT? AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CORRECT NUMBER SHOULD BE, WHETHER IT'S TWO CONSECUTIVE TWO YEAR TERMS, THREE CONSECUTIVE TWO YEAR TERMS, WHATEVER.
I THOUGHT 14 WAS A LITTLE LONG FOR THE PAST CHAIRPERSON.
AND I'M JUST SAYING CAN WE HAVE SOMETHING IN THERE THAT LIMITS THAT IN SOME WAY? AND I'M NOT SITTING HERE SAYING IT SHOULD BE X.
I JUST THOUGHT 14 YEARS WAS A LONG TIME.
WELL, WE DON'T HAVE ANY RULES RIGHT NOW OTHER THAN I THINK WE COULD START THAT TIMELINE WHENEVER THE CITY COUNCIL ADOPTS THIS, DON'T YOU THINK, BRANT? YEAH, AND I THINK I THINK WE'RE ALSO BRYNGING THIS CONFLICT TO COUNCIL'S ATTENTION.
AND WE COUNCIL MAY WANT TO CLEAN UP THAT TWO YEAR LIMITATION, FRANKLY, SINCE NO ONE IS FOLLOWING IT.
AND THEN WE CAN START CLEAN WITH I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
BRYN, THAT'S WHY I APPRECIATE HOW MUCH TIME YOU SPENT WITH THIS BECAUSE WE WRESTLED WITH.
BUT YOU CAN'T WE COULDN'T CHANGE IT.
I'VE ALSO NEVER SEEN AN ORDINANCE IN A CITY WHERE THE ZONING ORDINANCE ITSELF HAS NO RULES ABOUT P&Z, ONLY ZBA.
MY BACKGROUND ON CBA, IT WAS PRETTY DEFINED OF WHAT WE COULD DO AND WHAT WE COULDN'T DO.
RIGHT. AND THAT JUST IS PRETTY BLACK AND WHITE, RIGHT? RIGHT. SO I HAVE A COMMENT TOO.
OH YEAH. PLEASE. I WAS CURIOUS TOO.
LIKE, I KNOW WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THE LIMIT ON TERM OR FOR THE CHAIRMAN.
[00:35:02]
WHAT ABOUT TERM LIMITS FOR OURSELVES FOR THE REST OF THE BOARD AS WELL? BECAUSE IF WE'RE TRYING TO LIKE SPUR CIVIC ENGAGEMENT, IF IT COULD BE SOMETHING LIKE IF THERE ARE ACTUALLY LIKE OTHER APPLICANTS WHO ARE INTERESTED, A HOW DO THEY GET, YOU KNOW, IN. SO IF WE COULD ROTATE OUT.AND THEN ALSO I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING AND MAYBE I JUST MISSED IT OF LIKE, WHAT IS THE PROCESS FOR THE BOARD MEMBERS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN CONTINUING TO, LIKE EXPRESS THEIR INTEREST TO CONTINUE WITH THE COUNCIL? SO INSTEAD OF LIKE, ARE YOU JUST KEEP GOING? DO YOU JUST WAIT AND ASSUME YOU'RE ON IT OR YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE PROCESS FOR THAT? AND I DIDN'T SEE THAT IN THERE EITHER.
WELL, SO THE TERM LIMITS FOR P&Z MEMBERS WOULD NEED TO BE SET BY ORDINANCE BY COUNCIL.
SO IF WE JUST PUT IT IN HERE, REALLY WOULDN'T BE ENFORCEABLE.
YEAH. AND IN TERMS OF COUNCIL BEING MORE TRANSPARENT WITH INFORMATION ABOUT CONTINUING AND YOU'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW, SELECTED AGAIN. THAT'S THOSE ARE THAT WOULD BE A RULE THAT WOULD BE APPLIED TO COUNCIL AND NOT P&Z.
BUT WHAT YOU COULD DO IS IF SINCE THIS IS GOING TO COUNCIL IN YOUR MOTION, YOU COULD ALSO RECOMMEND, HEY, WE'D LIKE COUNCIL TO THINK ABOUT THESE OTHER THINGS AS WELL. BUT UNTIL THEY'RE PUT INTO AN ORDINANCE I DON'T YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO PUT IT IN HERE AND MAKE IT ENFORCEABLE BECAUSE CURRENTLY EACH COMMISSIONER HAS A TERM OF OFFICE THAT EXPIRES.
RIGHT. AND IT'S A ROLLING THING.
AND THE CURRENT THE WAY I UNDERSTAND THE CURRENT PROCESS IS THAT WHEN THOSE TERMS ARE EXPIRED, USUALLY IN A SEPTEMBER, THAT IN SOME TIME BEFORE SEPTEMBER, COUNCIL REQUESTS STAFF TO ADVERTISE FOR APPLICATIONS TO BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS AND THEN COUNCIL REVIEWS THOSE.
AND AS WE MENTIONED BEFORE, THEN ULTIMATELY FOR, YOU KNOW, WHEN ONE OF OUR TERMS EXPIRE, THEN THEY SEND OUT THE APPLICATION, YOU KNOW, REQUESTS, THEY GET THE POOL OF APPLICANTS TO COME IN.
AND COUNCIL CONSIDERS THE POOL OF APPLICANTS, INCLUDING THE SITTING INCUMBENT COMMISSIONER, JUST LIKE IT'S A WHOLE NEW BUBBLE, RIGHT? THEY CAN EITHER CONTINUE ON WITH THE COMMISSIONER THAT'S IN PLACE, THAT IS NOTATED THAT THEY'D LIKE TO CONTINUE, OR THEY GET TO PICK ANOTHER PERSON. SO THE TERM LIMITS IS THAT WRITTEN DOWN SOMEWHERE? THAT'S IN, I BELIEVE, LAST YEAR'S REVISION OF BOARDS AND CORRECTIONS ACTION BY COUNCIL.
OKAY. IT'S SOMEWHERE IN COUNCIL STUFF.
SOMEWHERE WHEN THEY REDID ALL THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT GOT CODIFIED IN EXACTLY, BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY DID.
AND IT KIND OF LIKE EVERYTHING STARTS OVER.
FOR THOSE PEOPLE THAT CAME OFF OKAY.
THAT'S THAT'S AS MUCH OF THE DETAIL ABOUT ALL THAT THIS.
THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT, WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST IS THAT FOR VARIOUS REASONS, TERMS OF EXPIRED COUNCIL HAVE COUNCIL HASN'T TAKEN ANY ACTION, AND IT MIGHT BE A WHOLE NOTHER YEAR THAT A SITTING COMMISSIONER IS STILL AT THEIR DESK PASS THE TIME ON THE CALENDAR THAT TECHNICALLY THEIR TERM EXPIRED.
SO YOU HOLD OVER IN OFFICE UNTIL YOUR SUCCESSOR IS APPOINTED.
I THINK THAT'S A REASONABLE ASK.
YES. BUT WHEN WE FORWARD THIS, WE COULD SAY IT'S A SECONDARY NOTE.
YEAH. YOU KNOW, WE CAN HAVE THEM LOOK AT 2 OR 3 OF THESE ITEMS. ABSOLUTELY. INCLUDING THAT.
HONESTLY. I DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY WERE ADOPTED.
AND TO YOUR POINT, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY BEING FOLLOWED.
SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS ONE MORE TIME WHEN YOU REWRITE PARAGRAPH THREE TWO.
THEN WE COULD VOTE ON WHETHER TO HAVE STAFF.
[00:40:06]
TWEAK IT UP AND THEN PUT IT ON AN AGENDA ITEM FOR COUNCIL TO APPROVE AND IMPLEMENT.OH FOR US, FOR US FIRST, NO, IT HAS TO COME TO US ONE MORE TIME.
I WILL, I WILL MAKE THAT EDIT CLARIFICATION I LIKE THAT, LEAVE IT, LEAVE IT INTACT.
BUT PUT SOME QUALIFYING LANGUAGE THAT THIS IS IN CONFLICT WITH THE CITY CHARTER.
BEYOND THAT, I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT A LOT OF DIFFERENT ISSUES.
BUT AS I SAID, THESE ARE WHOLESALE DROPPED IN FROM THE CODE OF ORDINANCES.
DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL? SO IT'S JUST COMMISSION AND COUNCIL, FOR INSTANCE.
AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE IT'S A NON-SUBSTANTIVE EDIT.
SO I JUST, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I HAVE MY MARCHING ORDERS.
IS THAT IT? IT ONLY BOTHERED ME READING THE DOCUMENT BECAUSE WE SWITCHED BACK AND FORTH.
RIGHT. AND THAT WAS OBVIOUS BECAUSE THAT CAME FROM HERE.
EXACTLY. DON'T THEY USUALLY USE HERE TO BE HERE, TOO? IN OTHER WORDS, WE'RE STARTING OFF WITH THIS.
BUT YEAH, FUTURE IT WILL SAY COUNCIL.
THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY. I THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM IS, AS YOU POINTED OUT, THE RULES ARE SCATTERED ALL OVER THE THE CODE OF ORDINANCES AND THE CHARTER, ALL ADOPTED AT DIFFERENT TIMES AND WITH NO THOUGHT OF MAINTAINING SOME CONSISTENCY IN THE USE OF TERMS. MAYBE THAT COULD BE ONE OF OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
IS RIGHT IS CLEAN IT UP, LEAVE YOUR EDITS IN HERE AND THEN.
YOU KNOW, NUMBER FIVE RECOMMENDATION.
I STILL THINK THE SEVEN MEMBERS AND THE TWO ALTERNATES NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED IN THERE.
YEAH. AND NUMBER SIX AND RECOMMENDATION THE SECRETARY POSITION.
YEAH. YOU CAN RECOMMEND AND SEND THIS DOCUMENT FORWARD.
BECAUSE WE CAN'T PUT IT IN HERE IF WE'RE USING THE WORDS OF THE [INAUDIBLE].
BUT WE OUGHT TO LET THEM KNOW, HEY, YOU NEED TO TWEAK ON THIS STUFF.
THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. SOMEBODY NEEDS TO FIX IT.
YEAH, WELL, I'M SURE THE CITY COUNCIL WILL PROBABLY FIGURE OUT WHO TO FIX IT.
YES. SO WE COULD TONIGHT DIRECT STAFF AS OUR ITEM HERE.
AND WE COULD VOTE ON DIRECTING STAFF TO.
UPDATE THIS DOCUMENT FOR THE GRAMMATICAL AND SPELLING AND FOR CONSISTENCY OF LANGUAGE.
IF YOU WANT TO, IF YOU WANT TO REVISE THE SOURCE TEXT FROM THE CODE, YES, YOU COULD DO THAT, OR YOU OR YOU WOULD VOTE TO RECOMMEND THAT COUNCIL DO THAT TO THE CODE OF ORDINANCES.
OH NO, I WAS THINKING THIS PARTICULAR DOCUMENT JUST CLEANED IT UP LIKE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE THE SPELLING AND THE PUNCTUATION AND YOU'RE ONE AMENDMENT TO 3.2. AND JUST CLEAN THIS UP OKAY AND LET'S STAFF AND VOTE TO WHEN STAFF'S DONE WITH THAT GO AHEAD AND SEND THIS TO COUNCIL.
OR DOES IT NEED TO COME TO US ONE MORE TIME, SO WE PUT OUR OTHER CAVEATS ON? NO YOU COULD END IT TONIGHT AND GIVE US THE DIRECTION IF THAT'S WHAT WE WANT SINCE WE'RE ALL HERE.
BECAUSE THE NEXT TIME, IF IT CAME BACK, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE OTHER MEMBERS WHO HAVEN'T BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS CONVERSATION VOTING ON SOMETHING THAT THEY REALLY WEREN'T A PARTY TO. WELL, IT'S NOT GOING TO TAKE THAT LONG.
I MEAN, NO, THE IF I UNDERSTAND THE CHAIRMAN CORRECTLY, WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS HAVE BRYN AND WES ADD THAT ONE LINE TO THE 32 OR WHATEVER THAT IS.
YEP. GO AHEAD AND DO THE CAPITALIZATION AND AS YOU'VE RECOMMENDED AND THEN BRYNG IT BACK TO US.
WE VOTE ON IT WITH ALL THE STIPULATIONS THAT WE WANT TO ADD LIKE YOUR TWO SUGGESTIONS, HER SUGGESTION, ROGER'S SUGGESTION AND ATTACH THAT TO, IF WE APPROVE IT, ATTACH THAT TO THE DOCUMENT, THEN SEND IT TO COUNCIL.
IS THAT WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING? THAT'S UP TO YOU ALL.
SO WE SEE IT ONE MORE TIME WITH THE YEAH.
AS I SAID, WHAT I OPENED WITH WAS DO YOU WANT TO ADD LANGUAGE ABOUT CONTACTING THE CITY ATTORNEY, HOW THAT PROCESS WORKS? YOU DON'T HAVE TO, I CAN DELETE THE WHOLE THING.
OBVIOUSLY, THAT WAS THE ONLY NEW THING.
I ADDED. OUR PROCESS, OUR PROCESS HAS BEEN WITHOUT RULES THAT ANY QUESTIONS THAT THE COMMISSION HAS FOR OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY.
GO THROUGH OUR DESIGNATED STAFF LIAISON.
RIGHT. SO HE IS THAT PERSON IS OUR SINGLE POINT OF CONTACT AND GOES FROM THERE.
[00:45:02]
AND THAT WORKS GREAT BECAUSE.YEAH. SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU WANT TO MEMORIALIZE IT? BECAUSE I KNOW ALL OF YOU ALL ARE ABIDING BY THAT UNWRITTEN RULE.
BUT TO YOUR POINT, PART OF THE REASON FOR DOING THIS IS NEW MEMBERS ARE GOING TO COME ON BOARD.
RIGHT. SO DO YOU WANT THAT IN THE RULES OF PROCEDURE THAT IS HANDED TO THEM ON THEIR ON DAY ONE? YES, I THINK EVERYTHING OUGHT TO GO THROUGH STAFF PERIOD.
SO I WILL MAKE THAT EDIT AS WELL.
AND THEN SO JUST I'M SORRY TO KEEP CIRCLING BACK TO THIS.
YOU DO OR DO NOT WANT ME TO CHANGE EVERY INSTANCE OF CITY COUNCIL TO COUNCIL.
OKAY. LEAVE IT AS YOU LEAVE IT AS IS.
AND THEN THAT CAN BE A PARALLEL RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL.
WE CAN ADD THAT TO THE DOCUMENT.
PERFECT. OR AS AN ADDENDUM TO..
RIGHT. WHAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT.
YEP. YEAH IT COULD SIMPLIFY THE LANGUAGE.
THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S SO MY MY TAKEAWAY IS I HAVE TWO AREAS THAT I NEED TO FIX.
AND WE ALL WE ALL KNOW WHAT THOSE TWO AREAS ARE AND WHAT THEY WILL SAY.
SO IT'S UP TO YOU WHETHER YOU WANT TO SEE IT AGAIN BEFORE IT MOVES ON OR YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH MY WORDSMITHING BASED ON THE DIRECTION I'VE RECEIVED, AND YOU MOVE IT ON TO COUNCIL IMMEDIATELY.
I THINK. I THINK WE COULD VERY WELL VOTE TO, AFTER OUR DISCUSSION AND DIRECTION TO STAFF AND CITY ATTORNEY, THE DISCONTINUES ON AND ENDS UP WITH COUNCIL, I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION EITHER WAY TO THAT.
I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS DOCUMENT WITH THE SPECIFIED CHANGES AND ALLOW IT TO MOVE ON TO COUNCIL. I'LL SECOND THAT.
HOW DO WE ATTACH THE AMENDMENTS TO THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT.
RIGHT. SO THAT'S THAT CAN EITHER BE BY SEPARATE MOTION OR IT CAN BE INCLUDED IN THIS MOTION IF IT'S IF IT'S SIMPLER TO JUST HAVE A CLEAN MOTION TO APPROVE THIS WITH THOSE CHANGES, THEN LET'S ENTERTAIN A SECOND MOTION.
HERE ARE THE THINGS WE'D LIKE COUNCIL TO LOOK AT.
OKAY. YEAH. JUST JUST FOR A POINT OF ORDER OF PROCEDURE.
AND SO DO YOU ALL MAY WANT TO FORMALLY PROMOTE HIM AS A VOTING MEMBER FOR TONIGHT, IF THAT'S YOUR NORMAL PROCESS? I DON'T KNOW. AS CHAIRMAN OF THE P&Z, I DO RECOGNIZE THAT WE HAVE OUR VICE CHAIR IS ABSENT THIS EVENING.
SO, COMMISSIONER SMITH, YOU WILL, MISTER TERRY SMITH, YOU WILL BE A VOTING MEMBER THIS EVENING.
PERFECT. I THOUGHT I COUNTED SEVEN.
YEAH. NO, NO I DIDN'T BECAUSE WE HADN'T HAD AN ACTION ITEM.
YES. SO NOW THAT WE DO YOUR POINT SO YOUR MOTION STANDS.
THE SECOND STANDS FOR COMMISSIONER OTTO.
UNANIMOUS VOTE TO SEND YOU ON YOUR WAY, SIR, WITH YOUR ADDITIONS AND YOUR GREAT WORK.
HAPPY TO DO SO. NOW CAN WE DISCUSS THE ADDENDUM SO WE WANT TO ADD TO IT? CAN WE DO THAT NOW? YES. SO THIS IS ONCE NOW THAT THAT VOTE IS DONE, THIS IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT YOU WANT TO PASS ALONG TO.
DO WE WANT TO GENERATE THAT DOCUMENT THIS EVENING.
WE'D RATHER, I'D RATHER GIVE THEM THE WHOLE THING TO LOOK AT IT.
LET'S START WITH LET'S START WITH COMMISSIONER GALLENSTEIN.
OH CAN WE MAKE THEM. DO WE NEED TO MAKE A MOTION TO GO AHEAD AND ADD THE ADDENDUM.
AND SECOND THAT THEN ADD THE ADDENDUM OR DO THAT FIRST.
EITHER WAY. SO IF YOU WANT TO HAVE DELIBERATION FIRST AND HAVE A CONSENSUS ON WHAT THOSE ITEMS ARE, THEN YOU CAN MAKE THE MOTION AFTERWARDS AND SAY THE ITEMS WE JUST DISCUSSED ARE HEREBY RECOMMENDED TO COUNCIL.
THAT'S GOOD. YEAH. THE WAY WE'LL COME UP WITH THEM AND EVERYBODY AGREES.
AND MR. GALLENSTEIN, DO YOU HAVE AN ITEM THAT YOU WANT TO ADD TO HAVE COUNCIL CONSIDER? I JUST TRYING TO TO UNDERSTAND THIS ABOUT THE TERM OF THE OF THE CHAIRMAN.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO DEAL WITH THAT AT.
SO THAT THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU ASK COUNCIL TO LOOK AT, OKAY.
[00:50:04]
BECAUSE WHAT YOU'RE ASKING THEM TO DO IS AMEND THE ORDINANCE SO THAT IT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE CHARTER SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE, RIGHT? CORRECT? CORRECT.YEAH. BECAUSE THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN DO AS THIS BODY.
RIGHT. RECONCILE THAT CONFLICT.
NUMBER TWO I THINK YOU WOULD ASK THAT COUNCIL ADOPT A PROCESS TO INFORM YOU ALL WHETHER YOU'VE BEEN REAPPOINTED OR NOT ON A REGULAR BASIS.
OH, YOU. I WAS TRYING IT SO THAT I COULD CLARIFY WHAT I WAS TRYING TO THINK CLEARLY.
YEAH, I'M NOT SAYING I DON'T, BUT I'M JUST SAYING AND THEN ALSO CONSIDER LIMITING CONSECUTIVE TERMS FOR THE COMMISSION TO PRIORITIZE OTHER CITIZENS WHO HAVE APPLIED FOR THE COMMISSION TO ENCOURAGE NEW VOICES AND CIVIC ENGAGEMENT.
OKAY. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S REDUNDANT TO SAY SO, BUT WITH RESPECT TO THE COUNCIL LOOKING THIS OVER, I WOULD.
HOPE THAT THEY WOULD LOOK AT THIS WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ELIMINATE ITEMS THAT THEY VIEW AS REDUNDANT OR NOT NECESSARY, SIMILAR TO THE, YOU KNOW, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PAPERWORK REDUCTION ACT.
SO I WOULD HOPE THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO LOOK AT IT AND KEEP THAT IN MIND.
ABSOLUTELY. COMMISSIONER OTTO.
I DON'T HAVE ANY. I STILL HAVE THE CLARIFICATION OF THE TOTAL BOARD IN THERE, THE TOTAL COMMISSION.
AND I'M SUGGESTING THAT 2.1 WHERE IT SAYS SHALL BE SHALL CONSIST OF A MINIMUM OF SEVEN CITIZENS FROM THE CITY, AND I'M SUGGESTING ADDING CONSISTENT CONSISTING OF A CHAIRMAN AND SIX MEMBER POSITIONS AND THEN DROPPING DOWN AND PICKING UP THE SENTENCE THAT THERE THERE SHALL BE APPOINTED TWO ADDITIONAL ALTERNATE MEMBERS.
SO, SO THE ONLY TRICKY PART WITH 2.1 IS THAT IT IS IN THE CITY CHARTER, NOT IN THE CODE.
AND SO WE JUST CALLED A CHARTER ELECTION.
SO STATE LAW REQUIRES THAT YOU WAIT AT LEAST TWO YEARS BEFORE YOU CALL ANOTHER CHARTER ELECTION.
YEAH. SO I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PASSING THAT ON.
DOES THAT MEAN THAT TECHNICALLY THEY DON'T HAVE TO APPOINT ALTERNATES? I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE AGAIN.
IT SAYS THE COUNCIL IS GOING TO APPOINT, SO I WOULD ASSUME THE COUNCIL WOULD APPOINT THE ALTERNATES.
IS THAT NOT. YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S TRUE.
THEY DO HAVE TO APPOINT ALTERNATES SOMEWHERE ELSE.
YEAH, I THINK THE ALTERNATES ARE ADDRESSED IN THE CITY CODE.
THIS PARAGRAPH IN 2.1 IS VERBATIM WORD FOR WORD FROM THE CITY CHARTER.
SO COUNCIL'S GOING TO HAVE NO AUTHORITY THEMSELVES TO EVEN CHANGE THIS FOR OVER TWO YEARS.
ALL RIGHT. YEAH. AND UNFORTUNATELY.
COMMISSIONER TERRY. I'M STILL STUCK WITH.
TO ME, THIS IS A VERY TECHNICAL COMMISSION, AND FROM MY YEARS IN MANAGEMENT, THERE SHOULD IN MY MIND BE A PROGRESSION THAT NEW MEMBERS ARE PLACED IN ALTERNATE POSITIONS AND AS OPENINGS ON THE PERMANENT COMMISSION VOTING COMMISSION BECOME AVAILABLE, THOSE ALTERNATES BECOME THE FIRST PATH OR FIRST CANDIDATES TO FILL AN OPEN POSITION, SO THAT WE'VE ALWAYS GOT AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE TRAINING NEW COMMISSIONERS, BECAUSE HONESTLY, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT A PLAT WAS OR A SUP OR ANY OF THAT, AND I'VE APPRECIATED THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE AN ALTERNATE, AN ALTERNATE, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A GOOD LEARNING EXPERIENCE FOR ME.
AND I THINK THIS COMMISSION IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE ALTERNATE POSITIONS.
SO IN MY MIND, THE BEST PROCEDURE WOULD BE NEW MEMBERS WOULD START OUT AS ALTERNATES AND AS OPENINGS BECAME AVAILABLE IN THE VOTING PEOPLE, THOSE ALTERNATES WOULD FILL INTO THOSE SPOTS.
[00:55:10]
WELL. AND IF YOU KNOW, IN IN CORPORATE STRUCTURE THERE'S ALWAYS A LINE OF SUCCESSION.UNFORTUNATELY THE WAY THIS IS OUR COMMISSION'S FORMATTED IS WE ALL ONLY GET TWO YEARS.
YEAH. AND WHEN TWO YEARS IS UP, TWO YEARS IS UP.
AND THEN YOU'VE GOT AN ALTERNATE THAT CAN STEP INTO THAT POSITION.
AND IT'S A TOTAL DISCRETION OF EVERY ELECTED COUNCIL.
I DON'T USE THIS TERM LIGHTLY.
THEY CAN HANDCUFF THEMSELVES IF THEY WANT TO.
JUST JUST SO EVERYONE RECOGNIZES, THOUGH OBVIOUSLY IF A FUTURE COUNCIL CAME IN AND THEY SAID, WE DON'T LIKE THIS RULE, THEY'LL JUST REPEAL THE YEAH, THEY JUST REPEAL THE ORDINANCE. YEAH. IT'S JUST A SUGGESTION.
SURE. NO, BUT THAT CAN CERTAINLY BE ADDED.
YEAH. WHEN THERE'S A TERM EXPIRES COUNCIL COULD CONSIDER.
RIGHT. AND YOU SAY YOU WILL GIVE PRIORITY TO AN ALTERNATE.
IT KIND OF GOES ALONG WITH HER IDEA OF HOW TO GO ABOUT REAPPLYING AND, YOU KNOW, RIGHT.
AND THAT'S A KIND OF A COUNCIL RULE.
COUNCIL RULE. AND THOSE ARE THE RULES OF HOW YOU SERVE, BASICALLY.
AND YOU ALSO WHEN YOU'RE INTERVIEWING PEOPLE, YOU GIVE THEM THE THOUGHT PROCESS.
YOU'RE GOING TO START OUT AS AN ALTERNATE, RIGHT, WITH THE IDEA THAT THIS IS A TECHNICAL BOARD.
AND WE WANT YOU TO LEARN THE, THE THE PROCESS.
NO LESS. HOPEFULLY WE DON'T GO THROUGH ANOTHER PURGE.
IT'S ALL SUBJECT TO, TO CHANGE.
BUT WE COULD CERTAINLY RECOMMEND IT.
I MEAN, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE, YOU KNOW, THEY LIKE THE CHAIR OF THE ZBA AND THEY, THEY WANT TO MOVE THEM OVER TO P AND Z, AND THEY WANT TO MAKE THEM A REGULAR MEMBER RIGHT AWAY.
PERFECT. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING? SO WE'VE GOT YOU.
WHY DON'T YOU REVIEW FOR US SO THAT WE KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE INSTEAD OF MAYBE WHAT I WROTE DOWN? IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND, WOULD YOU MIND? YES. I APPRECIATE YOU TAKING NOTES.
THIS IS THE SECRETARY TONIGHT, RIGHT? YEAH. THAT'S OKAY. AND THESE ARE JUST MY REAL QUICK NOTES, BUT THEY WERE HOPEFULLY ENOUGH TO JOG MEMORIES.
SECOND ONE WAS TO, LET'S SEE, COUNCIL ADOPTED TO ADOPT A PROCESS FOR REAPPOINTMENTS AND COMMUNICATION OF REAPPOINTMENTS AND AND SO FORTH.
THIRD ONE WAS CONSIDER LIMITING SECOND APPOINTMENTS OR REAPPOINTMENTS TO ENCOURAGE CITIZEN ENGAGEMENT. FOURTH ONE WAS TO LOOK AT REDUCTION OF DUPLICATION BETWEEN THE I'VE GOT DUPLICATION THERE.
THAT ONE. I MAY NEED SOME CLARIFICATION ON MY NOTES AREN'T GOOD ON THAT ONE.
AND THEN THE FIFTH ONE IS CLARIFICATION OF 2.17 MEMBERS VERSUS TWO ALTERNATES, AND THE LAST ONE IS ALTERNATES SHOULD BE GIVEN PRIORITY FOR WHEN CONSIDERING VACANCIES.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO KIND OF LOOK AT REDUCING SOME OF THAT.
TERM LIMIT. AND WHO APPOINTS WHERE? THAT'S THE CONFLICT.
RIGHT. AND OKAY AND APPOINTMENT.
WOULD IT BE LOGICAL IF THERE'S A TERM LIMIT ON THE CHAIRMAN, THAT THE SUCCESSION PLAN WOULD BE THE VICE CHAIRMAN WOULD BE THE NEXT LOGICAL PERSON? THAT'S HOW IT'S WRITTEN IN THE.
OKAY. IN THE ABSENCE OF THE CHAIRMAN AND THE VICE PRESIDENT.
[01:00:01]
YEAH, THAT'S IN THE ORDINANCE.YEAH, I WOULD I MEAN, I WOULD I GUESS I UNDERSTAND COMMISSIONER SMITH'S COMMENT ABOUT ONCE THE CHAIR RETIRES FROM THE COMMISSION, I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. RIGHT. LET'S SAY HE GOT SICK.
OH, OKAY. SO JUST MISSING A MEETING.
YES. OH, SO THAT THAT IS IN HERE.
OR IF HE IF HE GOT SICK AND COULDN'T CONTINUE HIS RESPONSIBILITIES, WOULD THAT LOGICAL THING BE THE VICE CHAIRMAN TO STEP IN? YES. SO THE VICE CHAIR. YES, THE VICE CHAIRMAN WOULD STEP IN.
OKAY. YEP. SO YOUR CONCERN IS ALREADY ADDRESSED THEN.
OKAY. SO WE ARE WE CLEAR ON THE SUGGESTIONS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEND FORTH TO COUNCIL? SURE, EVERYBODY.
OKAY, SO YOU CAN MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE PASSING ALONG THE RECOMMENDATIONS AS PRESENTED BY STAFF.
AND THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE MEMORIZED WHAT WE JUST SAID.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE AMENDMENTS TO SEND FORWARD TO THE CITY COUNCIL, AS WRITTEN BY THE CHAIR AND WES STAFF.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, RAISE YOUR HAND.
A UNANIMOUS VOTE OF COMMISSION TO SEND THOSE SUGGESTIONS TO COUNCIL FOR CLARIFICATIONS, ALONG WITH OUR NEW DOCUMENT, BYLAWS AND PROCEDURES.
AND IF WE GET A COPY OF WHAT YOU SEND FORWARD, THAT'D BE GREAT.
BE GREAT. AND OF COURSE, BRYN WILL BE AT THE MEETING SO HE CAN HELP WES EXPLAIN ALL THIS STUFF.
WHAT THE DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES ARE.
OKAY, WELL, THAT'S OUR LAST NIGHT.
THANK YOU, EVERYBODY, FOR ENGAGING IN ALL THIS DISCUSSION THIS EVENING.
OUR NEXT MEETING IS SCHEDULED FOR NEXT THURSDAY.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
ADJOURNED AT 8:26.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.