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[CALL TO ORDER]
NOW, UH, 6 0 3, SO I THINK WE'RE READY TO CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER OF THE, UH, BUILDING AND STANDARDS COMMISSION.UH, ONE OF THE THINGS I LIKE TO DO IS TO GIVE A QUICK OVERVIEW OF OUR RULES.
AND EVEN THOUGH I DON'T THINK IT'S ACTUALLY NEEDED, I KNOW THE ONE TIME I DON'T DO AN OVERVIEW AND SOMEBODY ISN'T GONNA KNOW WHAT TO DO, SO I'LL JUST, UH, KIND OF SPEW THROUGH IT REAL QUICKLY.
UH, FIRST OF ALL, UH, ANYBODY WHO WISHES TO SPEAK NEEDS TO SIGN IN AND IDENTIFY THEMSELVES BY NAME AND, UH, WHAT THEIR, UM, HOW THEY'RE ASSOCIATED WITH AN ITEM ON THE AGENDA AND, UH, WHAT CITY THEY'RE FROM.
AND WHEN I SAY, AND IT CAN BE, UH, UH, NEIGHBOR, IT CAN BE, UH, UH, YOU'RE REPRESENTING SOMEBODY AS A, AS A BUSINESS, WHATEVER, IT, IT'S VERY, VERY GENERAL.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE, UH, UH, SUPER SPECIFIC.
OKAY? UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO IS, I'LL, I'LL SAY THAT, UH, I'VE BEEN ON THIS BOARD FOR ABOUT 40 YEARS, AND NOBODY HAS KEPT, EVER KEPT FROM SAYING SOMETHING.
OKAY? SO, UH, EVERYBODY WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO, UH, COMMUNICATE.
I DO, BUT WE ONLY NEED ONE PERSON TALKING AT A TIME FROM THE PODIUM.
UM, UH, I BELIEVE IN THE RULES THAT WE PASSED LAST WEEK.
THERE IS A CUTOFF, BUT AGAIN, I'VE NEVER HAD TO CUT ANYBODY OFF, OR I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYBODY CUT OFF.
SO, UH, UH, PEOPLE'S, UH, TESTIMONY OR STATEMENTS IS NOT GONNA BE DONE WITH A STOPWATCH.
OKAY? UH, UH, THE OTHER THING IS, IS THAT, UH, IN GENERAL, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE DECISION MAKERS, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S CHANGED OVER THE YEARS IS THE ABILITY OF THE BOARD TO BE SUBJECTIVE WITH APPROVING OR DISAPPROVING, UH, OF, UH, ITEMS, UH, IN THE ORDINANCE.
THE CHIEF THING, UH, REASON OR JUSTIFICATION FOR A WAIVER IS THERE IS SOMETHING UNIQUE WITH THE PROPERTY OR SIGN OR SOMETHING.
UH, ONE OF THE EXAMPLES I LIKE TO USE IS, UH, THE SIGN ON TOP OF THE H HEB HOSPITAL, WHICH, UH, WE DID A, UH, I BELIEVE AT THE TIME, IT, IT WAS A VARIANCE.
IT'S A HUGE SIGN ON TOP OF A HOSPITAL, BUT, UH, WE DON'T HAVE VERY MANY SIX STORY BUILDINGS THAT ARE 500 FEET FROM THE FREEWAY.
OKAY? SO, IN OTHER WORDS, YES.
WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR IS FOR WHEN THE STANDARD ORDINANCES THINGS HAPPEN WITH THE STANDARD ORDINANCE THAT REALLY CAN'T BE, UH, UH, INCLUDED IN EVERY ITEM OF THE ORDINANCE.
OKAY? UH, WITH THAT, UH, I THINK IT'S TIME FOR US TO GO FORWARD AND WITH THE FIRST ITEM, WHICH IS THE ROLL CALL AND CERTIFICATION OF THE QUORUM.
UH, I'M RANDY YOUNGS, AND I'M HERE.
ANYBODY ELSE WANNA CHECK IN? APRIL WHEELER, TOM BRESNAHAN, STEPHANIE ARBOR.
AND SO THERE ARE FOUR MEMBERS TODAY, AND THAT MAKES A QUORUM.
[1. Consider approval of the following Building and Standards Commission meeting minutes for the June 1, 2023 meeting.]
FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS TO REVIEW AND APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE LAST MEETING.AND I WOULD LIKE EVERYBODY TO TAKE A FEW MINUTES AND READ THOSE.
UH, AND THEN AFTER THAT, WE CAN AND FACT, UH, LOOK AT A MOTION TO, UM, UH, A MOTION TO, UH, AMEND, APPROVE, OR DIS APPROVE.
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SO, EVERYBODY READY? YES.I CAN MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT THE MINUTES.
ARE WE READY TO VOTE, OR DO WE NEED A DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY, UH, AYE TO APPROVE MINUTES.
[2. Conduct a hearing and consider an appeal of a City Official interpretation of Chapter 6 Article III entitled “Signs”, specifically related to Sections 6-70 entitled “Sign Types”, 6-67 entitled “Definitions” and 6-72 entitled “Temporary Signs”. (APEL-23-2)]
NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS A CASE NUMBER, UH, 23 DASH TWO.AND, UH, DO WE HAVE SOMEBODY FROM THE CITY TO, UH, UH, DISCUSS THIS? THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
COMMISSION MEMBERS, THIS IS AN APPEAL OF A STAFF INTERPRETATION OF THE SIGN ORDINANCE.
UM, IN JUNE, UH, JUNE 19TH, BE EXACT, A NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES OFFICER OBSERVED A, UH, SIGN, UH, ESSENTIALLY WHAT STAFF BELIEVES IS A BANNER ATTACHED TO A VEHICLE.
UM, THE VIOLATION NOTICE WAS ISSUED, AND IT WAS ISSUED FOR ULTIMATELY THE, UM, AGAINST VEHICLE OR SIGNS, WHICH IS SIX DASH 67 DEFINITIONS, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THE DEFINITION OF A BANNER SIX DASH 72.
AND THEN TEMPORARY SIGNS, WHICH IS, I'M SORRY, I GOT THAT WRONG.
SIX DASH 70 IS, UH, VEHICULAR SIGNS, SIX DASH 67 IS DEFINITIONS.
AND THEN TEMPORARY SIGNS SIX DASH 72.
THE, UM, APPLICANT OF THE APPEAL, UH, HAS HIS VEHICLE HERE WITH, UM, AGAIN, THE SIGNED MATERIAL APPEARS TO MEET THE DEFINITION OF A BANNER, AND SO STAFF FINDS THAT THE BANNER IS NOT ALLOWED TO BE ATTACHED.
THANK YOU, UM, IS NOT ALLOWED TO BE ATTACHED TO A VEHICLE.
THE TEMPORARY SIGN SECTION CLEARLY DEFINES HOW BANNERS CAN BE, UM, ATTACHED AND DISPLAYED.
AND FURTHER IN SECTION SIX DASH 74 VEHICULAR SIGNS, IT DEFINES WHAT A VEHICLE SIGN IS AND ALSO WHAT A VEHICLE IS.
AND, UH, PROVIDES EXAM OR PROVIDES REGULATIONS AS TO WHAT SIGNS CAN BE ATTACHED TO A VEHICLE AND WHAT SIGNS CAN'T.
UM, AGAIN, STAFF FINDS THE, UH, SIGNING QUESTION TO MEET THE DEFINITION OF A BANNER, WHICH IS NOT IN COMPLIANCE OF THE LOCATION.
PERMIT REQUIREMENTS OR INSTALLATION REQUIREMENTS OF SIX DASH 72 STAFF ALSO FINDS THAT THE SIGN QUESTION IS ATTACHED TO A VEHICLE AND WITHIN, UH, A VEHICLE DEFINED AS THE, WITHIN THE SIGN ORDINANCE, AND IS A VIOLATION OF WHERE A VEHICLE CAN DISPLAY SIGNS THAT ARE PARKED OR SIGNS THAT ON VEHICLES THAT WERE PARKED.
WITH THAT, I CAN ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE.
UM, THERE ESSENTIALLY IS, IF IT IS CONSIDERED A BANNER, IT'S IN VIOLATION.
AND IF IT'S CONSIDERED A VEHICLE SIGN, IT'S ALSO IN VIOLATION.
THE YES TO THE BANNER QUESTION, THE VEHICLE SIGN, I DON'T BELIEVE STAFF DOESN'T BELIEVE THAT THE SIGNING QUESTION MEETS THE DEFINITION OF A VEHICULAR SIGN, BUT STAFF DOES BELIEVE THAT THE SIGN THAT, UM, IS ATTACHED TO A VEHICLE BASED ON THE DEFINITION IN THE SIGN ORDINANCE.
I KNOW THAT'S KIND OF CONVOLUTED, BUT, SO I'M NOT SAYING IT'S A VEHICULAR SIGN.
I'M SAYING IT'S A SIGN THAT'S ATTACHED TO A VEHICLE BASED ON THE DEFINITION OF THE ORDINANCE.
SO YOU'RE SIGN, YOU'RE SAYING A, UH, A BANNER, A SIGNED BANNER ASSIGNED BANNER IS NOT TO BE HOOKED TO A VEHICLE? THAT'S CORRECT.
THAT WAS WHAT I WAS GONNA ASK TO CLARIFY WHAT, AGAIN, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS HE CAN'T TAKE A NON-CONFORMING SIGN, ATTACH IT TO A VEHICLE AND SAY, AND SAY THAT IT'S ACCEPTABLE.
THIS, THIS IS NOT A NON-CONFORMING, THIS IS JUST A BANNER THAT'S NOT ALLOWED TO BE ATTACHED TO A, A VEHICLE.
BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS YOU CAN'T HAVE, I'M SORRY, YOU CAN'T HAVE
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A SIGN THEN, UH, TAKE IT OFF YOUR PROPERTY AND PUT IT ONTO A VEHICLE AND THEN SAY IT'S OKAY IN THIS MANNER.THAT IS REALLY WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DISCUSS AND WHAT WE'RE HERE TO JUDGE.
CORRECT THAT ITEM RIGHT THERE.
OKAY, SIR, I'M LOOKING AT THE DEFINITION OF, UM, VEHICULAR SIGN, OR I'M SIGNED VEHICULAR.
UM, WHAT PART OF THIS MAKES THIS, I'M TRYING TO THINK OF A GOOD WAY TO ASK THIS.
I'M LOOKING AT THE DEFINITION OF SIGNED VEHICULAR.
WHAT PART OF THAT DEFINITION DOES THIS BANNER ON THE BACK OF THE VEHICLE IS IT MET? SO A, SO LOOKING AT THE DEFINITION OF A VEHICULAR SIGN, I THINK, DID YOU HAVE THAT? YES.
UM, SO A, SO A SIGN ATTACHED TO A TRAILER 22 SKID OR SIMILAR MOBILE STRUCTURE, WHERE THE PRIMARY USE OF THE STRUCTURE IS TO PROVIDE A BASE FOR THE SIGN.
STAFF DOESN'T BELIEVE THAT THIS, THAT'S THE PRIMARY USE OF THIS VEHICLE, IS TO PROVIDE A BASE.
THE STAFF DOESN'T BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A VEHICULAR SIGN.
HOWEVER, IF YOU LOOK AT THE DEFINITION OF VEHICLE THAT'S COMING DIRECTLY OUTTA THE SIGN ORDINANCE, STAFF DOES BELIEVE THAT THIS SIGN IS ATTACHED TO A VEHICLE THAT MEETS THAT DEFINITION.
AND THEN IF YOU LOOK AT SECTION SIX DASH 70, UM, TWO AND THREE, IT SAYS THAT SIGNS PLACED OR AFFIXED TO VEHICLES AND OR TRAILERS THAT ARE PARKED IN PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, PUBLIC PROPERTY OR PRIVATE PROPERTY.
SO IT'S VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, WHERE APPARENT PURPOSE IS TO ADVERTISE PRODUCT OR DIRECT PEOPLE TO A BUSINESS OR ACTIVITY SHALL BE PROHIBITED.
SO THAT'S WHERE WE FEEL LIKE THE SIGN IS IN VIOLATION OF THAT AS WELL.
IN ADDITION TO THE BANNER SECTION AS WELL, UH, WASN'T THERE SOME PLACE IN HERE ALSO THAT SAID IT WAS FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF, UH, ADVERTISING OR PROMOTING? I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT WORDS MM-HMM.
AND OF COURSE, I CAN'T FIND IT NOW, BUT I, I'M PRETTY SURE IT'S IN THERE.
SO IT, UH, UH, IT ACTUALLY GOES TO INTENT.
THE PURPOSE OF THE SIGN IS ALSO WAS ALSO INCLUDED IN THIS.
I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY.
UH, WITH THAT, IS THERE, UH, ANY, ANYBODY TO SPEAK FOR THE, UH, REQUEST, UH, FOR THE, THE, UH, WAIVER? YES.
UM, THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR BEING HERE TODAY.
I'VE PREPARED A SPEECH FOR YOU.
UH, MY NAME IS TIMOTHY STUR, AND I'M HERE TODAY TO PRESENT AN APPEAL REGARDING THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION I RECEIVED UNDER SECTION SIX DASH 70 SUBSECTION C2 OF THE CITY ORDINANCE.
SPECIFICALLY IN RELATION TO VEHICULAR SIGNS, I'D LIKE TO EMPHASIZE UPFRONT THAT THE SOLE SECTION CITED IN ALL VIOLATION NOTICES I'VE RECEIVED PERTAINS EXCLUSIVELY TO SECTION SIX DASH 70 C2.
IN MY DIALOGUES WITH CITY REPRESENTATIVES, I HAVE GATHERED THAT OTHER SECTIONS OF THE CITY ORDINANCES MIGHT NOW BE IMPLICATED IN MY CASE CASE, HOWEVER, THE ONLY OFFICIAL VIOLATION NOTICE DELIVERED STRICTLY CONCERNS SECTION SIX DASH 70 C2.
WITHOUT EXPLICIT KNOWLEDGE OF THE EXACT ORDINANCE SECTION THE CITY SEEK TO APPLY, IT SEEMS APPARENT THAT THERE IS A RESOLUTE, ALBEIT DIFFICULT EFFORT TO INTERPRET THE ORDINANCE IN A WAY THAT INFRINGES UPON MY RIGHTS.
BEARING THIS IN MIND, I WILL ATTEMPT TO ARTICULATE MY VIEWPOINT, RESPONDING TO REMARKS MADE BY MULTIPLE BUILDING OFFICIALS.
THE PRIMARY ISSUE PERTAINS TO A SIGN ATTACHED TO MY PICKUP TRUCK'S TAILGATE A VEHICLE PRINCIPALLY EMPLOYED FOR BONAFIDE FAMILY TRANSPORTATION NEEDS, LIKE FERRYING MY CHILDREN TO SCHOOL AND PARTICIPATING IN CHURCH ACTIVITIES.
I CONTEND THAT ACCORDING TO SECTION SIX DASH SIX SEVEN'S DEFINITION, MY SIGN ALIGNS PRECISELY WITH THE STIPULATION OUTLINED FOR VEHICULAR SIGNS.
AND I'LL DETAIL THE REASONS UNDERPINNING THIS ARGUMENT IN SECTION SIX DASH SIX SEVEN.
A SIGN IS EXTENSIVELY DEFINED AS AN I'M PARAPHRASING, UH, EVERY SIGN WITH ADVERTISING OR COMMERCIAL MESSAGE, AFFIXED DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY TO OR UPON ANY BUILDING WINDOW STAKES, POSTS, POLES,
[00:15:01]
TREES, OR OUTDOOR STRUCTURES, CALLING ATTENTION TO ANY ACTIVITY.CRUCIALLY, THIS DEFINITION EXPLICITLY DETAILS THE MANNER IN WHICH THE SIGN IS TO BE ATTACHED.
REEMPHASIZING, A SIGN MUST BE AFFIXED DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY TO OR UPON A BUILDING.
WINDOW STAKES POSTS, POLES, TREES, OR OUTDOOR STRUCTURE CRITERIA, WHICH MY SIGN DOES NOT SATISFY, THEREBY CONTRADICTING THE GENERAL COMP, UH, CONCEPTION OF A SIGN.
HOWEVER, UH, THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THIS DEFINITION IN SECTION SIX DASH SIX SEVEN UNDER DEFINITIONS.
EACH TERM, CATEGORIZING SIGNS IS PREFACED BY SIGNS, COMMA, SIGNIFYING A FORM OF DEFINITIONAL INHERITANCE.
THIS MEANS THAT THE FUNDAMENTAL DEFINITION OF A SIGN I PREVIOUSLY QUOTED APPLIES ACROSS THESE CATEGORIES, UNLESS THE CATEGORY EXPLICITLY REVISES THAT BASE DEFINITION.
A PROMINENT INSTANCE OF SUCH AN OVERRIDE OCCURS IN SIGNS VEHICULAR DEFINED AS ANY SIGN ATTACHED TO A TRAILER SKID OR SIMILAR MOBILE STRUCTURE, WHERE THE PRIMARY USE OF SUCH STRUCTURE IS TO PROVIDE A BASE FOR SUCH SIGN OR CONSTITUTE THE SIGN ITSELF.
THIS IS THE SOLE TERM, COMPATIBLE WITH OUR SITUATION AS IT ACCURATELY DELINEATES THE APPROPRIATE BASE FOR THE SIGN'S ATTACHMENT.
A CAREFULLY POINT OUT, AS IT'S BECOME EVIDENT THAT CERTAIN CITY OFFICIALS ARE ATTEMPTING TO CATEGORIZE MY SIGN INCONSISTENTLY, WHILE I LIKE, WHILE I LACK CERTAINTY AT THIS POINT, THE MOMENT OF WRITING THIS REGARDING THE EXACT DIRECTION CITY OFFICIALS ARE LEANING TOWARDS, GIVEN THEIR DISREGARD FOR NOTIFICATION PROCEDURES, I'M AWARE OF A FEW CATEGORIES THEY'VE SUGGESTED.
ONE PROPOSITION STATES THAT MY SIGN ISN'T A VEHICULAR SIGN, BUT A BANNER, ALTHOUGH SECTION SIX DASH 67 DOESN'T PROVIDE A DEFINITION FOR BANNER, IT DOES PROVIDE A DEFINITION FOR THE TERMS SIGN, COMMA BANNER HORIZONTAL, AND SIGN COMMA BANNER VERTICAL.
HOWEVER, NEITHER OF THESE CLASSIFICATIONS ALIGN WITH THE CURRENT SITUATION FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS.
RECALLING THE, UH, OVERARCHING DEFINITION OF SIGN, IT EXPLICITLY DONATES, UM, SORRY, EXPLICITLY DENOTES THE BASIS FOR A SIGN ATTACHMENT, THEREBY MAKING IT CLEAR THAT UTILIZING A VEHICLE AS A BASE FAILS TO MEET THE STIPULATIONS.
BOTH THE HORIZONTAL AND VERTICAL BANNER DEFINITIONS INHERIT THIS PRINCIPLE TERM WITH ONLY THE VERTICAL BANNER EXTENDING THE BASE OF ATTACHMENT TO ENCOMPASS BUILDINGS, PARKING LOT POLES, AND OTHER PERMANENT STRUCTURES.
FURTHERMORE, A HORIZONTAL BANNER IS DESCRIBED AS A TEMPORARY SIGN INTENDED TO BE HUNG EITHER WITH OR WITHOUT A FRAME.
IN CONTRAST, MY SIGN IS COUNTER POISED THAT IS FIRMLY SECURED ON ALL SIDES, AND HENCE NOT HUNG OR LOOSELY SUSPENDED FROM ABOVE.
AS A RESULT, IT FAILS TO MEET THE CRITERIA FOR A HORIZONTAL BANNER.
CONVERSELY, A VERTICAL BANNER IS DEFINED AS BEING VERTICALLY MOUNTED, SECURED AT THE TOP AND BOTTOM.
WHILE MY SIGN IS NOT MOUNTED IN THIS WAY, IT'S WIDTH EXCEEDS ITS HEIGHT, MAKING THE CLASSIFICATION OF A VERTICAL BANNER, UM, DUBIOUS AT BEST.
NONETHELESS, THE SIGN IS AFFIXED ON ALL SIDES AND NOT MERELY THE TOP AND THE BOTTOM.
WHILE THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION I HAVE RECEIVED DOES NOT CITE SECTION SIX DASH 67 AND ONLY CITE SECTION SIX DASH 70 C2.
I WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO FOCUS ON SECTION SIX DASH 70 OF THE CITY ORDINANCE.
WHILE I'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS SECTION APPLIES TO THIS SITUATION, AND I'M MAKING NO ARGUMENT THERE.
IN FACT, IT WAS SPECIFICALLY DUE TO MY RESEARCH OF THIS SECTION THAT I DECIDED TO PURCHASE THE SIGNING QUESTION AND DISPLAY IT IN THE MANNER SHOWN SUBSECTION C1, WHICH MR. MORRISON OMITTED FROM HIS STATEMENTS, STATES THAT THIS PROVISION DOES NOT RESTRICT THE IDENTIFICATION ON VEHICLES, SORRY, RESTRICT THE IDENTIFICATION SIGNS ON VEHICLES USED FOR BONAFIDE TRANSPORTATION ACTIVITY.
I HAVE ALREADY DESCRIBED HOW THE SIGN IN QUESTION IS MY FAMILY'S PRIMARY.
I'VE ALREADY DESCRIBED HOW THE SIGN IN QUESTION IS ON MY FAMILY'S PRIMARY TRANSPORTATION VEHICLE.
THIS VEHICLE IS USED THREE DAYS A WEEK TO TRANSPORT MY CHILDREN TO SCHOOL.
DESPITE IT BEING SUMMER, MY CHILDREN STILL ATTEND SCHOOL.
THE VEHICLE IS ALSO USED TO TRANSPORT MY FAMILY TO VARIOUS CHURCH FUNCTIONS.
IT IS ALSO ROUTINELY USED FOR WORK AND PERSONAL BUSINESS.
THE VEHICLE WAS PURCHASED IN FEBRUARY, 2020, AND IN THAT TIME, WE HAVE PUT OVER 30,000 MILES ON IT.
HOWEVER, THE DISPLAY OF THE SIGN ONLY BEING PURCHASED ON MAY 31ST, 2023, IS NOT THE PRIMARY USE OF THE VEHICLE.
SORRY, SUBSECTION C2 STATES STARTS OUT WITH, UNLESS OTHERWISE PROVIDED BY ANOTHER ORDINANCE, VEHICLES THAT DISPLAY SIGNAGE PARKED ON THE SAME SITE OF A PREMISE OR A BUSINESS THAT IT REPRESENTS AND GOES ON TO STIPULATE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
THERE ARE A FEW KEY FACTORS TO CONSIDER WITH THIS.
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I ESTABLISHED EARLIER HOW THIS ACTIVITY IS COVERED UNDER ANOTHER ORDINANCE, SUBSECTION C1.SECONDLY, AS WES MORRISON QUICKLY POINTED OUT, THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION IS NOT THE SIDE OF A BUSINESS, AND MY SIGN DOES NOT REPRESENT A BUSINESS FOR THOSE REASONS.
SECTION SIX DASH 70 C2 DOES NOT APPLY HERE.
EVEN SO, THE ORDINANCE DOES NOT ORDER THE REMOVAL OF THE SIGN, BUT RATHER PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
SO THE ENFORCEMENT ORDER TO REMOVE THE SIGN DOES NOT SIT WELL WITH THIS PROVISION.
IT IS ALSO CRUCIAL TO NOTE THAT THE LOCATION OF MY VEHICLE IS NOT AN ADVERTISING STRATEGY, BUT A MATTER OF RESIDENTIAL CONVENIENCE.
THE SECTION OF STREET WHERE MY VEHICLE IS PARKED IS SIMPLY WHERE I RESIDE AND PROVIDES EASY ACCESS FOR LOADING AND UNLOADING.
THEREFORE, THE STIPULATIONS OF SECTION SIX DASH 70 C3 CONCERNING ADVERTISING A PRODUCT OR DIRECTING PEOPLE, DO NOT APPLY TO THIS SITUATION.
IT IS NEITHER ADVERTISING A PRODUCT OR DIRECTING PEOPLE IN ANY WAY.
IMAGINE MY CONFUSION WHEN I RECEIVED THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION STANDING BESIDE MY PICKUP TRUCK, WHILE SPOTTING SEVERAL OTHER VEHICLES WITHIN MY DIRECT VIEW, MERE YARDS AWAY, DISPLAYING SIMILAR SIGNAGE.
I CALLED THE NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES DIVISION TO GATHER MORE CLARITY ON THE SITUATION WHERE I SPOKE WITH WES MORRISON.
THROUGH OUR DISCUSSION, MR. MORRISON CLAIMED THAT IT'S A COMMERCIAL SIGN IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS ILLEGAL.
DESPITE MY ATTEMPTS, THE CONVERSATION WAS NOT PRODUCTIVE BEYOND THIS POINT.
ALTHOUGH MY SIGN DOES NOT SERVE A COMMERCIAL PURPOSE, I WAS GENUINELY CONCERNED OVER MR. MORRISON'S INTERPRETATION.
I HAVE COMBED OVER THE CITY'S ORDINANCES SEVERAL TIMES LOOKING FOR PROVISIONS TO CORROBORATE MR. MORRISON'S CLAIMS. HOWEVER, I WAS UNABLE TO FIND THE EXPLICIT PROHIBITION OF COMMERCIAL SCIENCE IN RESIDENTIAL ZONES.
INDEED, ANY SUCH RESTRICTION WOULD CONSTITUTE A GRAVE BREACH OF FIRST AMENDMENT GUARANTEES OF FREE SPEECH.
UM, WHILE MY EXPRESSION DOES NOT FALL UNDER COMMERCIAL, SPEECH IS CRUCIAL TO REMIND TO REMEMBER THAT COMMERCIAL SPEECH REMAINS WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF FREE SPEECH.
CONSIDER FOR A MOMENT, IF WE WERE TO APPLY THE RATIONALE THAT COMMERCIAL SIGNAGES FORBIDDEN IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS, HOW THEN WOULD BEDFORD RESIDENTS ACCESS THE ESSENTIAL ROUTINE SERVICES THEY REQUIRE FOR THEIR HOMES? SERVICES SUCH AS PEST CONTROL, H V A C, PLUMBING AND ELECTRICAL REPAIRS, AND SO ON.
MANY OF THESE ON-CALL BUSINESSES OPERATE FROM VEHICLES DISPLAYING COMMERCIAL SIGNAGE.
MR. MORRISON'S INTERPRETATION WOULD POSE AN UNWARRANTED IMPEDIMENT TO THE BUSINESSES SERVING OUR COMMUNITY, EXTENDING THIS LOGIC, NUMEROUS NEIGHBORS OF MINE WHO WORK IN THE TRADES DRIVE COMPANY VEHICLES, WHICH THEY PARK AT THEIR RESIDENCES.
THESE TRADESMEN WOULD FACE SIGNIFICANT DIFFICULTY IN CARRYING OUT THEIR DUTIES IF THEY WERE PREVENTED FROM PARKING THEIR COMPANY OWNED VEHICLES AT THEIR HOMES.
THIS INTERPRETATION LEADS TO AN UNTENABLE AND IMPRACTICAL SCENARIO, NOT JUST FOR CITY OFFICIALS AND LOCAL BUSINESSES, BUT FOR RESIDENTS TOO.
CONSIDERING THESE POINTS, THE VIOLATION NOTICE I RECEIVED SEEMS TO BE BASED ON A MISUNDERSTANDING OR MISINTERPRETATION OF THE ORDINANCE STIPULATIONS.
MY SIGN DOES NOT INFRINGE UPON ANY GUIDELINES SET FORTH IN THE CITY ORDINANCES.
THEREFORE, I REQUEST THAT THE VIOLATION NOTICE RELATED TO SIX DASH 6 72 SUBSECTION C SUBSECTION TWO BE RESCINDED, AND THE CODE VIOLATION CASE NUMBER C O D E 23 1 407 BE CLOSED.
I ALSO RESPECTFULLY ASK FOR CAREFUL AND THOROUGH EVALUATION FOR ANY PENDING OR FUTURE NOTICES, ENSURING THEY'RE GROUNDED IN A CORRECT AND FAIR INTERPRETATION OF THE ORDINANCES.
UH, UH, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.
WHEN WE WERE HERE LAST TIME, YOU INDICATED THAT THESE WERE PUPPIES THAT YOU WERE SELLING OR HAVING A RE-HOMING FEE FOR.
IS THIS THE SAME LITTER OF PUPPIES? THERE IS NO LITTER OF PUPPIES.
SO MY UNDERSTANDING WAS LAST TIME THAT THERE WAS AN ACCIDENT, ACCIDENTAL LITTER OF PUPPIES AT YOUR HOME, AND THAT YOU WERE TRYING TO FIND THEM GOOD HOMES WITHIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND YOU WERE CHARGING $750 REHOMING FEE.
THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN THIS SIGN.
I BELIEVE THAT'S A DIFFERENT PUPPIES.
WELL, I, I BELIEVE YOU'RE REFERENCING THE LAST APPEAL.
THE LAST APPEAL CONCERNED, UH, PLYWOOD SIGN.
THIS IS MADE OUT OF VINYL MATERIAL.
BUT IS IT THE SAME SUBJECT MATTER? NOT NECESSARILY.
ALL THOSE PUPPIES HAVE BEEN RE-HOMED QUITE SUCCESSFULLY BECAUSE OF THE SIGN.
IF YOU HAVE NO PUPPIES, PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME THE PURPOSE AND INTENT OF YOUR SIGNAGE.
IS THAT RELEVANT TO ITS LEGALITY? WELL, I THINK IT IS BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RESIDENTIAL VERSUS COMMERCIAL VERSUS IS IT A COMMERCIAL
[00:25:01]
SIGN? IS IT ADVERTISING? SO I, I, I DO BELIEVE IT'S RELEVANT.IT HAS MY PHONE NUMBER ON IT, ALONG WITH THE QR CODE THAT HAS FURTHER CONTACT INFORMATION.
ONCE AGAIN, SIR, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF YOUR SIGN? TO RELAY MY CONTACT INFORMATION.
FOR WHAT? IF YOU HAVE NO PUPPIES, WHAT'S THE PURPOSE? I WOULD LIKE TO BE CONTACTED.
WHY DO YOU WANNA, WHY DO YOU WANNA BE CONTACTED FOR GERMAN SHEPHERDS? WELL, WHY DOES ANY VENDOR WANNA BE CONTACTED? WHY WOULD ANYBODY PUT A PHONE NUMBER ON THEIR VEHICLE? DID YOU SAY VENDOR? I'M SORRY.
WHAT? WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY VENDOR CONTRACTOR? ANYONE WHO PUTS A PHONE NUMBER ON THEIR VEHICLE.
WHAT'S THEIR PURPOSE? TO HAVE SOMEBODY CALL THEM TO MAKE MONEY.
THEY OFFER A SERVICE, YOU CONTACT THEM, THEY COME AND THEY PROVIDE THEIR SERVICE.
I'M STILL NOT SURE HOW THIS IS RELEVANT TO THE ORDINANCE.
THE ORDINANCE DOESN'T STIPULATE WHICH SERVICES NEED TO BE PROVIDED IN RELATION TO ANY ADVERTISING ACTIVITIES.
NO, BUT IT DOES SAY RESIDENTIAL VERSUS COMMERCIAL PROPERTY ZONING.
SO ARE, WHAT ARE WE HERE TO DISCUSS? EXACTLY.
IT WAS SECTION SIX DASH 70, SUBSECTION C SUBSECTION TWO, WHICH IS THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION I RECEIVED, WHICH IS ALL I'M CONCERNED WITH TODAY.
IS THAT CODE VIOLATION? WELL, I THINK IT'S UNFAIR TO ASK US TO FOCUS, FOCUS ON ONE TEMPORARY CODE WHEN THERE'S A BUNCH OF CODES.
AND HERE'S WHAT I'M LOOKING AT.
IT'S SECTION SIX DASH 72 HORIZONTAL BANNER PERMIT REQUESTED.
DISTRICTS PERMITTED NON-RESIDENTIAL AND MHC.
SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PURPOSE OF THE SIGN, BECAUSE A HORIZONTAL BANNER, WHICH YOU INDICATE THAT YOU'VE BEEN, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, GIVEN A VIOLATION RELATED TO A HORIZONTAL BANNER.
AND I THINK THAT WE HEARD THAT THE CITY SAID IT WAS A HORIZONTAL BANNER, SAYS THAT IT'S PERMITTED IN A NON-RESIDENTIAL AREA.
AND LAST TIME, LAST APPEAL, I BELIEVE THAT YOU SAID YOU DO LIVE IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA, AND THAT WASN'T, THAT WASN'T ONE OF YOUR, UH, SOMETHING THAT WE NEEDED TO DISCUSS, CORRECT? WELL, SO THERE WERE SOME COMMENTS MADE AT THE FIRST APPEAL, SOME QUESTIONS ASKED OF WES MORRISON ABOUT THE PROPERTIES ADJACENT TO MY PROPERTY, SAYING THAT IT'S SURROUNDED BY RESIDENTIAL AREAS.
AND THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE EITHER.
UM, EITHER WAY, UH, THE CONTENT OF THE SIGN CAN'T REALLY BE A FACTOR IN ENFORCEMENT ACTIVITIES.
THERE'S SIGNIFICANT CASE LAW AGAINST THAT.
THE CITY'S PUTTING ITSELF IN SOME GRAVE JEOPARDY IF IT DECIDES TO INTERPRET THE ORDINANCE BASED ON, UH, THE CONTENT OF THIS.
I'M SORRY, DO YOU HAVE A BAR ID? I'M SORRY? DO YOU HAVE A BAR ID? IS THAT RELEVANT? WELL, UM, I GUESS IF YOU'RE GOING TO THREATEN US, IT MIGHT BE, I'M SORRY, I'M NOT THREATENING ANYBODY.
I APOLOGIZE IF IT CAME OFF THAT WAY.
SO, SO THE REASON I ASK WAS BECAUSE SECTION SIX DASH 72 HAS HORIZONTAL BANNER.
I BELIEVE THAT THE CITY HAS INDICATED YOUR SIGN FALLS INTO HORIZONTAL BANNER.
SO MY QUESTION IS, IS THIS A NON-RESIDENTIAL AREA? WELL, IT'S NOT A BANNER.
IT DOESN'T MEET THE DEFINITION OF A BANNER.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT TEMPORARY SIGNS ARE, ARE WHERE THEY'RE LOCATED.
SO IS THIS A NON-RESIDENTIAL AREA THAT'S NOT RELEVANT TO VEHICULAR SIGNS.
I WAS GONNA SAY, WHEN I, WHEN I LOOK AT OUR ORDINANCE, THERE'S A CLEAR DISTINCTION IN BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL AND NON-RESIDENTIAL.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO YES, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT.
BUT IF YOU DON'T WANNA ANSWER THAT, THEN WE'LL JUST GO WITH THE CITY'S FINDING THAT IT'S A, A RESIDENTIAL AREA.
THE STREET ON WHICH THE VEHICLE IS CURRENTLY PARKED.
THAT PICTURE ALSO, YOU, YOU SAID THE VEHICLE WAS USED FOR TRANSPORTATION OF YOUR CHILDREN AND SUCH.
DID YOU PLACE A, UM, A POST ON FACEBOOK ON THE BEDFORD PAGE SAYING THE TRUCK DID NOT RUN AND YOU HAD TO HAVE IT TOWED? IS THAT RELEVANT TO THE CASE? I BELIEVE IT IS.
YOU MADE IT RELEVANT BY PUTTING IT ON OUT THERE.
THE INITIAL CONVERSATION I HAD WITH WES MORRISON LED ME TO BELIEVE THAT IT WAS AN ISSUE WITH WHERE THE VEHICLE WAS PARKED ON A PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.
SO I NEEDED TO MOVE IT ONTO MY PRIVATE PROPERTY.
HOWEVER, IN THE PROCESS OF DOING THAT, UM, CODE ENFORCEMENT REACHED BACK OUT AND SAID THAT IT DIDN'T MATTER WHERE THE VEHICLE WAS, IF IT WAS IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA, WHETHER ON PRIVATE PROPERTY OR NOT, IT WAS STILL NOT PERMITTED.
SO I'M LOOKING AT SIGNED BANNER HORIZONTAL.
A TEMPORARY SIGN INTENDED TO BE HUNG, INTENDED TO BE HUNG EITHER WITH OR WITHOUT A FRAME.
NOW, WHEN YOU MADE YOUR INDICATION, YOU SAID INTENDED TO BE HUNG AND YOU MADE A PAUSE, BUT I DON'T THINK HUNG IS SEPARATE THAN EITHER WITH OR WITHOUT A FRAME.
UM, THERE'S ALSO POSSESSING CHARACTERS.
I THINK THIS SIGN HAS CHARACTERS, UM, ILLUSTRATIONS OR ORNAMENTATIONS,
[00:30:02]
AND IT'S APPLIED TO PAPER, PLASTIC OR SOME FABRIC.SO YOU WOULD AGREE THIS IS SOME FABRIC? I AGREE.
IT DEFINITELY MEETS THE DEFINITION OF VEHICULAR SIGN.
I DON'T BELIEVE IT MEETS THE DEFINITION OF A HORIZONTAL BANNER OR ANY BANNER.
AND THAT IS BECAUSE YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT IS HUNG? WELL, THAT'S ONLY ONE REASON.
I STIPULATED SEVERAL DIFFERENT REASONS AS TO WHY I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S A BANNER, ONE OF THEM BEING THE BASE FOR THE SIGN.
SO THE BASE OF THE SIGN IS ACTUALLY VERY RELEVANT TO THE DEFINITIONS WITHIN SECTION SIX DASH SIX SEVEN.
I'M LOOKING AT THE DEFINITION OF SIGN BANNER HORIZONTAL, AND IT DOES NOT TALK ABOUT THAT.
IT SAYS A TEMPORARY SIGN INTENDED TO BE HUNG EITHER WITHOUT, WITH, OR WITHOUT A FRAME, POSSESSING CHARACTERS, LETTERS, ILLUSTRATIONS, OR ORNAMENTATIONS APPLIED TO PAPER, PLASTIC OR FABRIC OF ANY KIND.
SO WE'VE ESTABLISHED THAT THIS IS, UM, PAPER, PLASTIC OR FABRIC OF SOME TIME OF SOME KIND.
AND IT POSSESSES CHARACTERS, LETTERS, ILLUSTRATIONS.
I'M NOT SEEING THE SIGNED BANNER.
DOES THE SIGNED BANNER HORIZONTAL DOES NOT INDICATE WHAT YOU'RE STATING IT DOES.
RIGHT? SO IN THE TERM, IT'S SIGN COMMA, BANNER, HORIZONTAL, THE SIGN COMMA IS RELEVANT BECAUSE THERE IS A TERM SIGN.
THIS IS DEFINITIONAL INHERITANCE, MEANING EVERYTHING UNDER THE DEFINITION OF SIGN APPLIES TO SIGN COMMA BANNER, HORIZONTAL.
UNLESS THAT SPECIFIC TERM THAT THAT INHERITS THAT DEFINITION MAKES SOME SORT OF OVERRIDE ON THAT DEFINITION, WHICH HORIZONTAL BANNER DOESN'T.
SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE DEFINITION OF SIGN? YES, MA'AM.
AND I SEE EVERY SIGN, NAME NUMBER, IDENTIFICATION, DESCRIPTION, ANNOUNCEMENT, DECLARATION, DEMONSTRATION, DEVICE, DISPLAY FLAG.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? YES, MA'AM.
SO AFTER FLAG, IT SAYS BANNER.
BUT IT'S NOT A BANNER BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MEET THIS DEFINITION.
IF YOU CONTINUE READING, IT GOES ON TO TALK ABOUT THE, UH, THE BASE FOR THE SIGN, WHAT IT IS ATTACHED TO.
SO CRUCIALLY, THIS DEFINITION EXPLICITLY DETAILS A MANNER IN WHICH THE SIGN IS TO BE ATTACHED REEMPHASIZING.
THE SIGN MUST BE AFFIXED DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY TO OR UPON A BUILDING WINDOW, STAKES, POSTS, POLES, TREES, OR OUTDOOR STRUCTURE.
AND THAT IS NOT WHAT MY SIGN IS AFFIXED DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY TO.
SO YOU'RE SAYING IT'S NOT A SIGN AT ALL? NO, I, IT DEFINITELY IS A SIGN BECAUSE AS I MENTIONED, THE DEFINITION INHERITANCE, IF YOU GO FURTHER DOWN, THERE IS ANOTHER INHERITANCE OF THE DEFINITION.
AND IN THAT DEFINITION, IT DOES STIPULATE SIGNS THAT ARE AFFIXED TO MOBILE STRUCTURES, WHERE THE PRIMARY USE OF SUCH STRUCTURE IS TO PROVIDE A BASE FOR SUCH SIGN OR CONSTITUTE THE SIGN ITSELF.
AND I THINK YOU INDICATED THE PRIMARY USE OF THE VEHICLE WAS, UH, FAMILY ACTIVITY TO GET YOURSELF TO WORK, GET THE CHILDREN TO SCHOOL, GO TO CHURCH.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND, UH, SECTION SIX DASH 70 C1 AUTHORIZES THE USE.
SO SIGNED VEHICULAR, WHERE THE PRIMARY USE OF SUCH STRUCTURE IS TO PROVIDE A BASE FOR SUCH SIGN OR CONSTITUTE THE SIGN ITSELF.
THE PRIMARY USE OF THE STRUCTURE IS NOT TO PROVIDE A BASE FOR THE SIGN, BUT TO TAKE YOUR CHILDREN TO SCHOOL, TO CHURCH, TO BUSINESS, TO DO RESIDENTIAL AND BUSINESS.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND SECTION SIX DASH 70 C1 AUTHORIZES SIGNS ON VEHICLES, WHICH IS ALSO IN SECTION SIX DASH 70 DEFINITION FOR VEHICLES.
AND THEN THE VEHICLE, WHEN YOU HAD IT TOWED, YOU PUT IT IN YOUR DRIVEWAY? WELL, DURING THE TIME OF IT BEING TOWED, I, I WAS INFORMED THAT IT DIDN'T MATTER, SO I JUST HAVEN'T PUT IT BACK WHERE IT WAS, IT HAD AN ISSUE WITH THE FRONT SUSPENSION.
THAT'S NOT REALLY RELEVANT TO THIS SITUATION.
IT HAS IT, BUT WHEN THE VEHICLE WAS MOVED, SO IT'S HERE ON, I, I WANNA KNOW WHERE IT WAS MM-HMM.
AND I THINK THAT IT WAS ON THE STREET, BUT WHEN THE APPEAL WAS FILED, YOU INDICATED ON FACEBOOK THAT YOU TOWED IT TO YOUR DRIVEWAY.
WELL, THAT WAS THE INTENTION TO HAVE IT TOWED TO THE DRIVEWAY.
I, I LEARNED, BUT IT DIDN'T HA BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
EITHER WAY, THE VEHICLE WAS REPAIRED WITHIN 24 HOURS OF IT.
WELL, THE, THE REASON I'M A, THE REASON I'M ASKING IS MM-HMM.
BECAUSE IT GOES ON TO SAY VEHICULAR PARKED BY YOUR HOUSE SIDE REAR.
AND THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING, BECAUSE YES, IF IT MOVED OFF THE STREET, I WANTED TO KNOW IF IT MET SIDE REAR VEHICLE.
THIS IS NOT THE USUAL PLACE WHERE THIS VEHICLE IS PARKED.
UH, THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY ON A CORNER, UM, THE VIEW THAT YOU HAVE HERE, AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE IT IN THE TOP CORNER.
UM, YOU CAN SEE THE INTERNALS OF THE, OF THE, UH, CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER'S PICKUP.
SO THIS IS THE INTERSECTION OF GLENDA DRIVE AND HEARST DRIVE.
I, WAIT, THAT'S THAT I SEE A TRASH CAN.
AND THEN THERE'S A WHITE VEHICLE ABOVE VERY TOP LEFT.
THERE'S THAT LITTLE TRIANGLE THAT'S THE INSIDE OF THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.
HE'S SITTING ON HEARST DRIVE LOOKING NORTHWARD
[00:35:01]
ONTO GLENDA DRIVE.RIGHT BEHIND HIM IS MY DRIVEWAY.
MY DRIVEWAY CONNECTS TO HEARST DRIVE.
THIS VEHICLE, THE VEHICLE IN QUESTION, MY PICKUP IS USUALLY PARKED IN MY DRIVEWAY.
THIS, IN, IN THIS, IN, I BELIEVE IT WAS A MONDAY MORNING.
UM, THERE'S EQUIPMENT IN THE BACK THAT, UH, WAS TO BE UNLOADED THAT AFTERNOON.
SO, UM, THAT'S THE ONLY REASON IT'S SITTING THERE.
WE USUALLY PUT IT IN, IN THE DRIVEWAY WHERE IT'S SAFER.
WE, WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD SEVERAL INCIDENCES ON THIS STREET ALONE.
I'VE HAD, UM, ANOTHER VEHICLE THAT I OWNED, GOT SPRAY PAINTED.
I'VE HAD VEHICLES WRECKED INTO, UM, YOU KNOW, IT IS JUST, IT'S, IT'S A VERY DANGEROUS AREA TO PARK A VEHICLE.
SO I DON'T TYPICALLY PUT MY VEHICLE THERE.
SO DURING THE TIME OF THIS APPEAL, THE VEHICLE WAS EITHER ON THE STREET AS IT'S SHOWN IN THE PICTURE, OR IT WAS IN YOUR DRIVEWAY? IT, IT WAS MOSTLY IN MY DRIVEWAY.
I'M TRYING TO RECALL IF IT'S BEEN IN THE STREET SINCE THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN.
IT, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN FOR ME MINUTES.
I CAN'T REMEMBER IT STAYING THERE OVERNIGHT.
AGAIN, WE DON'T LIKE TO LEAVE IT THERE.
AND THE DRI YOUR DRIVEWAY, IT'S ABOVE THIS STREET.
IT'S, I MEAN, THIS, IT CONNECTS TO THIS STREET, RIGHT? UH, NO, IT CONNECTS TO HIRST DRIVE, WHICH IS THE STREET, THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER SITTING ON THIS SIDE.
THE STREET, THE PICKUP IS ON IS GLENDA DRIVE.
UH, I DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I DO, YES, SIR.
I, UM, I CAME LATE A LITTLE BIT.
UM, SO I'VE HEARD THE CONVERSATION BACK AND FORTH.
DID YOU PUT THIS SIGN AFTER THE, WE MADE A DECISION ON YOUR FIRST SIGN? THIS SIGN WAS PURCHASED ON MAY 31ST.
I DON'T REMEMBER THE DATES WHEN WE HAD THE, THE LAST APPEAL WAS ON JUNE 1ST.
IT WAS ACTUALLY THE, THE DAY AFTER FIRST.
BUT THIS, THIS SIGN WAS PURCHASED THE DAY BEFORE.
UM, THIS IS NOT THE SAME SIGN.
THE OTHER SIGN WAS, UH, FABRICATED OUT OF PLYWOOD.
IT WAS PROFESSIONALLY MADE, AND IT'S ON A VINYL MATERIAL.
UM, SO WE MADE A DECISION ON THE OTHER CASE WITH THE BIG SIGNS.
WHEN THE DECISION WAS MADE TO REMOVE THAT SIGN, I, I COMPLIED AND RESPECTED THAT DECISION, AND THAT SIGN'S BEEN REMOVED AND DISPOSED OF.
AND THEN THIS SIGN WENT UP, UM, THE DAY BEFORE, BUT YEAH, IT, OKAY.
SO THEY, THIS, I, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ASK, AND I'M HAVING THE SAME ISSUE.
SO THE OTHER SIGN THAT WE WERE HERE FOR THE SIGN, UM, THAT WAS IN YOUR YARD, THAT WAS IN WOODEN, IT CAME DOWN AFTER THE LAST APPEAL DECISION, CORRECT? ABSOLUTELY.
WHEN THAT APPEAL DECISION OCCURRED, WAS THE SIGN ON YOUR TRUCK ALREADY UP AND IN PLACE? YES.
IT WAS UP FOR SEVERAL WEEKS BEFORE THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION WAS ISSUED.
DOES THAT HELP? I THINK I WAS, I WAS A LITTLE BIT CONFUSED TOO.
UM, SO YOU, YOU SAID EARLIER THAT YOU NO LONGER HAVE THE PUPPIES MM-HMM.
WELL, THERE'S MULTIPLE REASONS, BUT GO.
SO THE, THE FIRST HEARING, UH, YOU TOLD US THE REASON WHY YOU PUT THAT UP, YOU KNOW, TO REHOME THE PUPPIES.
BUT THIS ONE, THE REASON THAT YOU GAVE EARLIER, I MEAN, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU DIDN'T REALLY ANSWER THE QUESTION EARLIER, SO I I'M JUST CONFUSED WHY YOU HAVE THAT SIGN THERE.
USUALLY THERE'S A PURPOSE WHEN PEOPLE HAVE SIGNS, UH, IN THEIR FRONT YARD CARS OR ANYWHERE.
UH, THERE'S USUALLY A PURPOSE BEHIND IT.
UM, IF YOU DON'T WANNA TELL US, THAT'S FINE, BUT YEAH, I'M JUST, I DON'T UNDERSTAND.
IF YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE A REASON OR PURPOSE, WHY HAVE IT AT ALL, WHY APPEAL THE CO OFFICERS? WELL, SO THERE'S, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR QUESTION, AND I APPRECIATE THE WAY YOU WENT ABOUT ASKING A QUESTION.
UM, SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, THE PURPOSE AND INTENT OF THE SIGN, THE CONTENT OF THE SIGN, SHOULDN'T REALLY BE FACTORED INTO ENFORCEMENT ACTIVITIES THAT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
AND THERE'S SEVERAL CASE LAWS THAT ALREADY HAVE THAT, THAT'S WHERE THAT LAST CONVERSATION STARTED TO DETERIORATE.
WOULD, WOULD YOU, THIS SIGN RIGHT, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THIS ISN'T A POLITICAL SIGN? WELL, IF HAVE, HAS ANY OF YOU SCANNED THE QR CODE? I HAVE.
AND WHAT DID YOU FIND? IT SAID THAT THE PUPPIES ARE GONE AND YOU STILL HAVE IT UP BECAUSE, UH, OF YOUR FREE SPEECH, YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.
[00:40:01]
OKAY.SO, I'M CURRENTLY IN THE PROCESS OF FORMING A NEW COALITION, THE BEDFORD FREE SPEECH ADVOCACY COALITION.
WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF FILLING OUT ALL THE NECESSARY PAPERWORK, AND WE'RE GOING TO DO A PETITION ON THIS ORDINANCE.
THERE'S AN INITIATIVE POSITION THAT THE BEDFORD ORDINANCE ALLOWS US TO DO.
I BELIEVE THAT THIS SIGN ORDINANCE THAT BEDFORD ENFORCES AND USES IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
AND BASED ON MY DISCUSSIONS WITH CITY COUNCIL AT THE LAST CITY COUNCIL MEETING, ACTUALLY, IT'S, IT'S BEEN A COUPLE OF, IT'S BEEN A COUPLE OF MEETINGS, I APOLOGIZE.
BUT THE LAST ONE I ATTENDED, THEY INFORMED ME THAT THESE ORDINANCES ARE VERY OLD.
SO THAT CASE LAW THAT IS EXISTS TODAY, UM, HAS NOT BEEN FACTORED INTO THE CURRENT, UH, AREAS OF THE CODE ORDINANCES.
SO THIS IS A POLITICAL SIGN IN DISGUISE? NOT NECESSARILY IN DISGUISE.
I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S DEFINITELY OUT THERE AND, AND THERE AND, AND, AND INTENDED TO PROVIDE OUT MY CONTACT INFORMATION.
SO YOUR ARGUMENT IS THAT THIS ISN'T A SIGN BANNER OR A VEHICULAR SIGN, BUT A POLITICAL SIGN? MY ARGUMENT IS THAT IT IS A VEHICULAR SIGN, BUT SECTION SIX DASH 70 C2 DOES NOT APPLY TO IT.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE HERE.
SO I WANTED TO CONTINUE ON IF, IF SURE, THAT'S FINE.
I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T WANNA INTERRUPT YOU, BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO, UH, I DIDN'T WANNA MOVE ON UNTIL WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, ONE AREA COVERED BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THE NEXT.
I I, I'VE BEEN A LONG TIME RESIDENT OF BEDFORD.
UH, WELL, I'VE ONLY LIVED HERE FOR FIVE YEARS.
I'VE, OR AT THIS RESIDENCE FOR FIVE YEARS.
I'VE LIVED IN BEDFORD FOR MUCH LONGER.
I'VE PAID A LOT OF TAXES TO THE CITY, AND I WANT THOSE TAXES TO BE USED APPROPRIATELY.
WHAT I DON'T WANT IS FOR SOMEBODY OVERZEALOUS SEEING THAT THESE ISSUES ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND USING THAT TO LEVERAGE SOME SORT OF LAWSUIT, THAT PERCEIVED THREAT THAT YOU HEARD EARLIER.
I WOULDN'T THREATEN THIS CITY.
HOWEVER, THE CITY DOES NEED HELP IN ENSURING THAT IT DOESN'T FALL VICTIM TO SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
MY GOAL HERE IS TO DEMONSTRATE THAT, AND THEN THROUGH, UM, ACTION, A LAWSUIT.
NOT A LAWSUIT, NOT A LAWSUIT, AN INITIATIVE PETITION.
I WANT TO BE ABLE TO DRAFT UP A REVISED ORDINANCE THAT DOES ADHERE TO CASE LAW AND CURRENT STANDARDS AND EVERYTHING, AND GARNER THE NECESSARY SIGNS, UH, SIGNATURES, AND PRESENT THAT TO CITY COUNCIL FOR CONSIDERATION.
DID YOU APPLY FOR A PERMIT OR PAY A FEE FOR A POLITICAL SIGN? NO, IT'S A VEHICULAR SIGN.
IS THERE A, IS THERE A FEE REQUIRED FOR I DON'T HAVE THE ORDINANCE UP RIGHT NOW.
I'LL PROBABLY, CAN I ASK MY QUESTIONS UNINTERRUPTED THIS TIME? I'M SURE.
SO I THINK WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, UM, I, I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO.
UM, SO I, YOU KNOW, I USED TO BE A ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY, AND I DRAFT, HELPED DRAFT SOME OF THE ORDINANCE.
I USED TO WORK FOR THE CITY OF FORT WORTH.
UH, I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH, UM, NOT, NOT AS MUCH AS YOU ON SOME OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES THAT YOU TALK ABOUT, BUT ISN'T THERE A BETTER WAY TO DO YOUR PART AS A CITIZEN OF BEDFORD? I KNOW THAT, UM, WE HAVE A CITY ATTORNEY HERE, SHE'LL PROBABLY KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS, YOU KNOW, REVISING ORDINANCES THAT USUALLY GOES THROUGH A DIFFERENT PROCESS.
MAYBE YOU'VE SPOKEN TO THE CITY COUNCIL MM-HMM.
ISN'T THERE A BETTER WAY TO DO THAT THAN, UH, YOU KNOW, LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE SORT OF TESTING THIS? UH, SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I'M COMING FROM.
YOU KNOW, I, I THINK YOU'RE, YOU HAVE GOOD INTENT THERE, BUT I'M NOT REALLY SURE THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO, TO GO.
SO THIS DIDN'T START OUT AS MY INTENT.
AND I'M, I'M SORRY TO, TO CUT YOU OFF, BUT I WANT TO, WE'RE GETTING INTO A LOT OF QUESTIONS.
I WANNA MAKE SURE I ANSWER ALL OF THEM.
UM, SO THE FIRST SIGN WENT UP FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF REHOMING PUPPIES.
ONCE THAT MISSION WAS COMPLETED, AND THROUGH MY EXPERIENCE THROUGH THAT, IT WAS EVIDENT THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM HERE, AND I WANNA BE A PART OF SOLVING THAT PROBLEM.
BUT IN ORDER FOR ME TO DO THAT, LIKE, LIKE WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, THE SIGN WAS ALREADY UP.
I HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THE, THE PROCESSES AFFORDED TO ME THIS APPEAL IS ONE OF THEM.
NOW, THE NEXT STEP AFTER THIS APPEAL IS TO DISTRICT COURTS.
UM, MY SITUATION IS THAT ONCE THIS IS CONCLUDED, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA BE ALL IN WITH THE, UH, ADVOCACY GROUP.
WHICH, WHICH WILL BE, YOU KNOW, DRAFTING UP A NEW ORDINANCE, GARNERING THE NECESSARY SIGNATURES FOR THE PETITION AND PUTTING THAT IN FRONT OF CITY COUNCIL.
THE SIGN, HOWEVER, REMAINS RELEVANT CUZ IT WAS KIND OF WHAT KICKED OFF THIS WHOLE THING.
I WAS JUST TRYING TO REHOME PUPPIES.
WELL, THANKS FOR, UH, ANSWERING THAT QUESTION AND EXPLAINING WHY YOU'RE DOING THIS.
UH, THIS IS, THIS IS WHERE I'M COMING FROM.
I, I, I THINK YOU'RE TRYING TO GET US TO SAY THAT WE'RE, UM, LEGISLATING OR THE,
[00:45:01]
THE CONTENT OF THE, UH, THE SIGN, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT CITY, THE CITY IS DOING.WE'RE, WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT AND IT'S IN THE MATERIALS.
IT'S THE ACTUAL SIGN THAT'S IN VIOLATION, NOT WHAT'S BEING ADVERTISED.
I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE CASE.
NOT THAT THE CITY'S TRYING TO LEGISLATE THE CONTENT ITSELF, BUT THE SIGN THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE TWO.
AND, AND AS FAR AS ON PAPER GOES, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU.
THIS IS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A VEHICULAR SIGN AND WHETHER IT'S PERMITTED, WHICH I WOULD HOPE THAT THAT'S WHAT THE, THE RULING TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION TODAY.
BUT TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION OVER WHAT THE INTENT OF THE CITY IS, BASED ON MY CONVERSATIONS WITH CITY OFFICIALS, I WAS TOLD IT'S A COMMERCIAL SIGN IN RESIDENTIAL AREA, AND THAT'S NOT ALLOWED.
AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW, I MEAN, THERE'S EVEN A VEHICLE IN THIS PICTURE WITH OTHER SIGNAGE ON IT, AND THEY HAVEN'T RECEIVED A NOTICE OF VIOLATION.
BEHIND HIS PICKUP IS ANOTHER ONE, AND ACROSS THE STREET IS ANOTHER ONE.
THERE ARE THREE VEHICLES WITHIN VIEW OF THIS TRUCK WHERE IT SITS THAT HAS A VERY SIMILAR SIGNAGE.
I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE GO FORWARD AND QUIT TRYING TO INTERPRET DIFFERENT MEANINGS.
LET'S GET BACK TO THE NATURE AND REASON FOR THIS HEARING IS THE SIGN.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE AND I, AND I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING, UM, BUT I THINK THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE THAT WANNA SPEAK TONIGHT BESIDES HIM.
WELL, I, THAT'S THE REASON WHY I THINK WE SHOULD MOVE FORWARD, BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE FROM THE COMMUNITY HERE.
AND, UH, WHAT I HEARD, IF, AGAIN, IF THE OTHER MEMBERS WOULD AGREE WITH ME, WE SEEM TO BE GOING THROUGH THE SAME LOOP OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AND WE AREN'T FOCUSING ON THE SIGN.
UH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GRAMMAR AND COMMAS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UH, AND I, I THINK I'VE, I'VE HEARD YOUR POINT FOR MYSELF.
I BELIEVE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TOO.
AND WE'VE, AGAIN, WE'VE REPEATED THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
AND I THINK, UH, I THINK IT'D BE GOOD IF WE MOVED ON.
I APPRECIATE YOUR PERSPECTIVE AND THANK YOU ALL.
AND WHEN I, AND WHEN I, I SAY MOVE ON, WE MOVE ON.
THE NEXT PHASE IS TO ASK IF THERE'S COMMUNITY MEMBERS, IF THERE ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS.
ARE Y'ALL HERE JUST FOR MORAL SUPPORT? I SPEAK.
I DO LIVE IN BEDFORD ON CENTRAL DRIVE.
AND REGARDING THE SIGN ITSELF, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO CALL OUT THAT THERE'S BEEN, ON MULTIPLE VEHICLES, THERE'S ALWAYS ADVERTISEMENTS, WHETHER THEY'RE COMMERCIAL VEHICLES OR PERSONAL VEHICLES THAT HAVE BUSINESSES IN THEIR OWN HOME, LIKE CINCY, UM, ADVOCARE, ALL THESE OTHER DIFFERENT THINGS THAT HAVE THEIR NAMES, PHONE NUMBERS, AND THE SAME THING THAT THIS SIGN HAS TO SAY.
SO I'M JUST CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT EXACTLY IS THE ARGUMENT? IS IT WHAT MAKES THE SIGN ILLEGAL? SO I JUST WANT TO CALL IN THE FACT THAT DOESN'T MEET THE DEFINITIONS.
AND I SEE NOTHING WRONG PERSONALLY WITH THE SIGN ITSELF, IF IT'S ACTUALLY DEFINED AS SUCH.
SO THERE WAS, UM, ONE OTHER THING THAT, THAT, UH, CAME UP AND, AND WANTED TO MENTION THIS.
THEIR BODIES ARE MADE OUT OF ALUMINUM, NON MAG MAGNETIC.
UH, I WOULD'VE PREFERRED TO HAVE THE SIGNED MAGNETIC.
UM, BUT THAT DOESN'T WORK WITH THIS TYPE OF VEHICLE.
SO THIS WAS THE BEST WAY I COULD DO IT.
UM, IT WASN'T ANYTHING PARTICULAR TO BEING A BANNER.
UM, IT WAS ACTUALLY A SURPRISE TO ME THAT IT WAS INTERPRETED THAT WAY.
SO THAT, THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO SAY.
IT'S, IT'S AN AUGMENTED MAGNETIC VEHICLE.
UH, IS THERE ANY OTHER, ANYBODY ELSE, UH, WISH TO SPEAK TONIGHT? UH, THIS IS THE TIME WHEN WE USUALLY CAN GO INTO A DISCUSSION.
UH, BUT I, AGAIN, I'M GONNA LEAVE IT OPEN FOR, UH, DOES ANYBODY ELSE, WOULD ANYBODY ELSE WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT BEFORE WE GO INTO OUR DISCUSSION PHASE? OKAY.
WITH THAT, UH, I THINK WE CAN, UH, DISCUSS THE ISSUES AND THE, UH, AND THE APPEAL THAT WAS BROUGHT PER FOR US TONIGHT.
SO WOULD, UH, ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO, TO START OFF? WELL, I, I CAN, I CAN TELL YOU, SO
[00:50:01]
I'M LOOKING AT THE DEFINITION OF SIGN BANNER HORIZONTAL, AND I BELIEVE THIS IS THE DEFINITION THAT THE CITY USED, A TEMPORARY SIGN INTENDED TO BE HUNG EITHER WITH OR WITHOUT A FRAME, POSSESSING CHARACTERS, LETTERS, ILLUSTRATIONS, OR ORNAMENTATION APPLIED TO PAPER, PLASTIC OR FABRIC OF ANY KIND.I THINK THIS SIGN MEETS ALL THOSE, UM, THAT I THINK IT MEETS THAT DEFINITION.
UM, THE VEHICULAR SIGN, IF YOU'LL GIVE ME A SECOND TO, TO GET TO THAT, THE VEHICULAR SIGN VEHICULAR, ANY SIGN ATTACHED TO A TRAILER SKID OR SIMILAR MOBILE V STRUCTURE WHERE THE PRIMARY USE OF SUCH STRUCTURE IS TO PROVIDE A BASE FOR SUCH SIGN OR CONSTITUTE THE SIGN ITSELF.
I THINK THE CITY SAID, BECAUSE THE STRUCTURE IS NOT THE PRIMARY USE OF SUCH STRUCTURE TO PROVIDE BASIS THAT IT DOESN'T FALL IN WITH VEHICULAR SIGN.
AND SO THAT'S WHY THEY USED BANNER.
AND I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY, UM, OBJECTIONS OR DIFFERENCE OF OPINION THAT THIS IS A VEHICLE.
UM, SO IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK, I'M SORRY, IT'S TAKEN ME A MINUTE TO FIND WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR.
SORRY, IT'S TAKEN ME A MINUTE TO SCROLL AND I'M ONLY ON 6 68.
UM, THERE'S A QUESTION ABOUT THE ADVERTISEMENT WHERE IT'S PARKED, AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY QUESTION THAT IT IS ON THE STREET THAT IT IS ADJACENT TO A PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.
UM, AND IT, I GUESS IT TEMPORARILY BEING USED OR FOR UNLOADING OR LOADING OF GOODS OR MERCHANDISE, UM, THE PETITIONER INDICATED IT WAS GOING TO BE LATER THAT DAY, BUT I THINK THAT DEFINITION MEANS THEN IT'S BEING USED FOR LOADING OR UNLOADING OF GOODS OR MERCHANDISE AT THE TIME OF WHERE IT'S PARKED, NOT LATER IN THE DAY.
UM, SO I GUESS WHEN I LOOK AT IT, I SEE THAT IT IS A BANNER.
I SEE THAT CITY'S POINT THAT IT'S NOT A VEHICULAR SIGN.
UM, AND THAT'S WHERE I'M AT WITH IT.
ANY, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? UH, ONE OF THE THINGS I'D LIKE TO, TO, I'LL GO BACK, I TELL STORIES A LOT THAT WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE, MY COLLEGE PROFESSOR WAS UP THERE TALKING AND HE SAID THAT, UH, WHEN HE STARTED COLLEGE, HE WAS A BIOLOGIST AND HE, HE WENT TO STANFORD AND HIS GIRLFRIEND CAME AND, UH, TO VISIT HIM ONE WEEKEND.
AND HE WENT THROUGH AND HE WAS PICKING OUT ALL THE DIFFERENT, UH, PLANTS AND GIVING THEM ALL, ALL THE DIFFERENT, UH, UH, LATIN NAMES, THE CORRECT NAMES.
AND THEN HE COMES TO A, A CERTAIN TREE AND HE LOOKS AT THE BARK AND HE CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT WHAT IT IS.
AND HE LOOK AT, AT THE TR AT THE LEAVES, AND HE COULDN'T FIGURE OUT WHAT IT WAS.
AND FINALLY HIS GIRLFRIEND COMES TO HIM AND SAYS, UH, YOU KNOW, THOSE APPLES ON THE TREE MAY BE AN INDICATION OF WHAT, WHAT THIS TREE IS.
AND THE REASON WHY I BRING THAT UP IS THAT SOMETIMES YOU CAN GET SO ATTUNED INTO ALL SORTS OF DETAILS, YOU LOSE FOCUS OF WHAT THE REAL INTENT IS.
AND TO ME, WHAT THE INTENT IS OF THIS ORDINANCE AND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS IN FACT, CAN PEOPLE ATTACH, UH, SIGNAGE OR SOMETHING TO A VEHICLE AND DISPLAY IT IN, IN A MANNER THAT WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED IF IT WASN'T ON THE VEHICLE.
THAT'S WHAT THIS IS TALKING ABOUT AND IS PUTTING SOME RULES IN.
AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK THE QUESTION OF THIS APPEAL IS ABOUT IS, IS THIS SIGN THE WAY IT'S BEING DIS DISPLAYED ON THAT PICTURE, UM, UH, UH, IN LINE WITH OUR ORDINANCES OR NOT MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE ORDINANCE, IT'S THE PARKING AND LOCATION OF THE VEHICLE
[00:55:01]
ON A RIGHT OF WAY.NOT THAT HE CAN'T HAVE A SIGN ON HIS CAR IF HE WANTS A SIGN ON HIS CAR, HE NEEDS TO, OR I'M SORRY, HIS VEHICLE.
IT NEEDS TO BE POSITIONED IN SUCH A WAY THAT ISN'T VISIBLE FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY.
AND I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT THE ORDINANCES, UH, WES IS, WAS, WAS MY INTERPRETATION CORRECT.
IN THAT THE ISSUE IS, IS THAT, IS THAT SIGN IS VISIBLE FROM, UH, FROM A RIGHT OF WAY.
THE, THE ISSUE IS THAT IT'S STAFF BELIEVES IT'S A BANNER AND IT'S NOT ALLOWED, IT'S NOT IN A CORRECT LOCATION FOR THE BANNER.
ALSO, THE ISSUE IS THAT THE, IF THE JIM WERE TO PARK THE VEHICLE WHERE IT COULD NOT BE SEEN, I GUESS THERE WOULD NOT BE A VIOLATION CAUSE I COULDN'T SEE THE VIOLATION.
BUT I MEAN, EVEN COORDINATING OUR ORDINANCE, IT SAYS YOU CAN HAVE SIGNAGE IF YOU'RE DROPPING OFF OR PICKING UP OR YOU'RE DOING WORK AT SOME PLACE, AND THAT IF YOU WANNA PARK IT ON PROPERTY, YOU NEED TO, YOU NEED TO HAVE IT IN SUCH A WAY WHERE IT ISN'T VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.
SO REALLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, IT'S, IT'S NOT, NOT EVEN THE SIGN, IT'S THAT SIGN ON THAT VEHICLE PARKED IN THAT LOCATION OR SOME LOCATION WHERE THAT SIGN CAN BE VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.
THAT'S THE WAY I LOOK, THAT'S THE WAY I LOOK AT THIS ORDINANCE.
I KNOW WE HAVE A COUPLE LAWYERS, UH, HERE TONIGHT WHO MAY, UH, BE ABLE TO PARSE THAT MUCH BETTER THAN I CAN, BUT TO ME, THAT'S WHAT THE ISSUE IS.
THE ISSUE IS WE HAVE AN ORDINANCE WHERE PEOPLE CANNOT BUY A VEHICLE OR HAVE A VEHICLE, WHETHER IT'S A TRAILER OR A TRUCK OR ANYTHING, PUT SIGNAGE ON IT THAT WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED AND THEN PARK IT PLACES, UH, UH, AND I'LL SAY CLUTTER UP THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS IS THAT MY, IS MY INTERPRETATION KIND OF A CORRECT, AND I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT THE UH, UH, THAT'S WHAT YOU BASICALLY WROTE UP.
THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM.
BECAUSE I THINK IT'S REAL IMPORTANT THAT WE DON'T ESTABLISH A PRECEDENT, UH, UH, ALLOWING SIGNS LIKE THIS ON VEHICLES.
UH, THE REASON IS ONCE, ONCE YOU, ONCE YOU LET ONE IN, IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE OLD STORY OF THE, UH, CAMEL, CAMEL AND THE, UH, UH, YOU LET THE CAMEL, UH, PUT HIS NOSE IN THE TENT DURING THE SNOW SANDSTORM BECAUSE, UH, YOU THINK THAT, UH, YOU THINK THAT, UH, YOU'RE BEING A NICE, UH, NICE PERSON AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THE THE CAMEL'S IN THE TENT AND YOU'RE OUT.
UH, AND I'VE, I'VE SEEN THIS IN OTHER LOCATIONS.
I'VE ALSO, UH, UH, BEEN IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY WHERE OUR SIGN ORDINANCE WOULD BE CONSIDERED UNT UNFATHOMABLE BECAUSE IT LET TOO MUCH SIGNAGE, UH, ON PROPERTY.
I MEAN, ONE TIME I LITERALLY, UH, COULDN'T FIND A MCDONALD'S BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY SIGNS.
SO, UH, THERE ARE, THERE ARE, I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S PLACES WHERE THERE'S, UH, UH, THEY'RE MUCH MORE LIBERAL IN WHAT THEY ALLOW AND THERE'S MU AND THEY'RE MUCH STRICTER.
AND I THINK, UH, I THINK THE INTENT IS PRETTY WELL DONE.
ANYWAY, THAT'S MY, THAT'S MY THOUGHT PROCESS.
SO I'M LOOKING AT THE CITY DEFINED IT AS A HORIZONTAL BANNER.
IS THERE A PERMIT REQUIRED? YES.
THE DISTRICTS IT'S PERMITTED ARE NON-RESIDENTIAL, AND SO THERE WAS NO PERMIT.
IT'S NOT, IT IS A RESIDENTIAL AREA, NOT NON-RESIDENTIAL.
UM, AND SO IT ISN'T MEETING THOSE, IT IS NOT MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF A HORIZONTAL BANNER AS IF IT, IF IT IS CORRECTLY DE DEFINED AS A HORIZONTAL BANNER.
HI, MY NAME IS TERESA ANA, HOLD ON.
WE'VE ALREADY CLOSED PUBLIC COMMENT, SO OH, YOU DID.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC TO SPEAK, THEN YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND REOPEN IT.
BUT AT THIS TIME, PUBLIC COMMENT IS CLOSED.
IT'S JUST SOMETHING REGARDING WHAT YOU SAID.
[01:00:01]
WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY IS I NOTICE THAT A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WOULD WISH TO SPEAK.IS IT ACCEPTABLE TO THE BOARD THAT WE REOPEN PUBLIC COMMENTS? OKAY.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE REOPEN PUBLIC COMMENTS.
I SECOND ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
I SAID YES, WE DO BELIEVE IN LETTING PEOPLE SPEAK, BUT WE NEED TO DO, GO THROUGH THE PROPER, IT'LL BE BRIEF.
WE NEED TO GO THROUGH THE PROPER ORDER.
SO WE, WE HAVE NOTHING AGAINST YOU.
NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY, THERE IS NOTHING AGAINST YOU.
MY NAME IS THEREA ANA, I LIVE OFF OF GLENDA.
AND THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT YOU MENTIONED, MR. YOUNG'S, UH, YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT ALL THE PROPERTY AND ALL LIKE MCDONALD'S AND YOU WENT BACK TO BACK IN THE DAYS AND ALL THAT.
AND UH, YOU MADE A GOOD POINT.
SO WHAT ABOUT LIKE, AMEX AND TOYOTA AND ALL THESE HONDA SIGNS ON ALL THE LICENSE PLATES? ARE THEY ARE, I MEAN, THEY'RE, I HAVE ONE IN MY CAR BECAUSE I JUST PURCHASED THE VEHICLE.
SO WHAT HAPPENS THEN? ARE THEY IN VIOLATION AS WELL? SO, CUZ UH, AND I, AND I, AND I SAW, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU SAID SOMETHING IT JUST CLICKED, YOU KNOW? AND I'M LIKE, HUH.
SO ARE THEY IN VIOLATION AS WELL? BECAUSE THESE ARE BIG DEALERSHIPS, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE MONEY MAKING, SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LICENSE PLATE HOLDER, THE LICENSE PLATE, EVEN, EVEN LIKE WHEN YOU'RE PUTTING SIGNS OF HOW MANY CATS AND DOGS AND KIDS YOU HAVE AND BASICALLY PUTTING YOUR LIFE OUT THERE, YOU KNOW.
WELL, I CAN TELL YOU IT'S NOT BEFORE THIS BOARD AND FACTS MATTER.
SO IF WE DID JUST DOING A HYPOTHETICAL, WE COULDN'T ANSWER THAT BECAUSE MOST OF THIS IS BASED ON FACTS AND A SPECIFIC CODE.
I JUST DON'T KNOW IF, IF WE CAN GIVE YOU AN ANSWER WITH NOT A REAL LIVE OF COURSE, APPEAL IN FRONT OF US.
YEAH, WELL, JUST WANTED TO PERSONALLY, I WOULD THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE CLOSER TO A LOGO THAN, THAN AN ACTUAL SIGN.
AND, UH, YEAH, AND SIZE DOES MATTER.
UH,
AND AGAIN, WE AREN'T HERE TO DISCUSS THAT, BUT, UH, I DO BELIEVE THAT'S MORE OF AN OUT BULLS AND AN ORANGES SORT OF, UH, UH, CONDITION AND NOT REALLY TIED IN DIRECTLY WITH THIS DISCUSSION.
YEAH, THANKS FOR BRINGING THAT UP.
I MEAN, THAT DEFINITELY, THAT IS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.
WE WANNA THINK ABOUT EVERYTHING.
NO, I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC MEETING.
PUBLIC, PUBLIC COMMENTS, PUBLIC MEETING, WELL, PUBLIC COMMENTS BEFORE THAT.
IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE IN THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? OKAY.
NOBODY HAS, NOBODY HAS SHOWN THAT THEY WANT TO SPEAK.
UH, AND SO I THINK, UH, A MOTION TO CLOSE PUBLIC MEETING, UH, PUBLIC COMMENT, UH, IS APPROPRIATE.
SO I WILL MAKE THE MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENTS.
WITH THAT, WE ARE BACK IN THE DISCUSSION PHASE.
DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO DISCUSS? I HAVE A COMMENT AND ALSO A QUESTION FOR OUR CITY ATTORNEY AFTER I MAKE MY COMMENT.
UM, ON THE CITY SIDE, UH, THIS ISSUE SEEMS PETTY TO ME.
UH, THERE ARE OTHER SIGNS, UH, THAT PEOPLE PUT ON THEIR CARS AND, UM, I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS ISSUE WAS, WHY THIS IS, THIS WAS, UH, BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION OR WHY THERE WAS A NOTICE OF VIOLATION ISSUE.
UH, BUT THAT'S A SEPARATE MATTER.
ANOTHER ON THE, UH, MR. STERN SIDE.
WHY I DON'T LIKE THIS IS BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE YOU DELIBERATELY TRY TO EVADE OUR DECISION OR RULING ON A PREVIOUS SIGN.
SO YOU TRIED TO CIRCUMVENT WHAT WE TOLD YOU WAS NOT APPROPRIATE ALREADY.
UM, SO WHAT THAT COMMENT MADE, THE QUESTION I HAVE FOR OUR CITY ATTORNEY IS IN THE, IN PAGE 14 OF STAFF, UH, I MEAN ON PAGE THREE OF STAFF REPORT, BUT IT'S ON PAGE 14, RIGHT BEFORE EXHIBITS.
IT SAYS, THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION REQUESTED THE SIGN REMOVED WITHIN SEVEN DAYS OF THE DAY OF THE NOTICE, WHICH WOULD'VE BEEN MONDAY, JUNE 26TH ON A REINSPECTION CONDUCTED ON JUNE 26TH.
THE SIGN IN QUESTION HAD BEEN REMOVED.
THE CO ENFORCEMENT CASE WAS CLOSED ON THAT DAY.
[01:05:02]
CAN WE STILL HEAR A CLOSED CASE, UH, THAT'S ALREADY BEEN CLOSED BY THE CITY.SEEMS LIKE THAT'S A, IT'S, IT'S A MOOT POINT AT THIS, AT THIS POINT.
WELL, I THINK WE'RE HERE TO DISCUSS THE APPEAL, EVEN IF, UH, EVEN IF THE SIGN WAS TAKEN AWAY, I BELIEVE THE APPEAL IS INTENDED TO HAVE IT PUT BACK UP.
AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE, THAT, THAT'S WHY WE'RE TALKING HERE TODAY.
SO HE COMPLIED, BUT ALSO DISAGREES.
AND THAT'S WHY HE APPEALED THAT, THAT WOULD BE MY INTERPRETATION OF WHY WE'RE HERE, IS MAKING SURE THAT HIS SIGN WAS OR WAS NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF BEDFORD AT THE TIME THAT THE, UH, VIOLATION OR ALLEGED VIOLATION OCCURRED.
SO, SO WOULD IT BE, SO WOULD IT BE ESSENTIALLY, ESSENTIALLY IT'S STILL OPEN.
HE COMPLIED AND THEN APPEALED.
IT, AS FAR AS THE CITY'S CONCERNED, THEY CAN USE THE WORD CLOSED, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY CLOSED BECAUSE HE WANTS TO PUT THE SIGN BACK UP.
SO HE DOESN'T GET A FINE BY TAKING IT DOWN, BUT HE WANTS TO PUT IT BACK UP.
SO IT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE CAN DECIDE.
SO, TO MY RECOLLECTION, I DON'T RECALL IF MR. STERN MADE THAT POINT OF WANTING TO PUT IT UP.
UH, SO I, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT.
BUT ON THE DAY THAT THIS CITATION WAS GIVEN, ACCORDING TO STAFF, HE WAS NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE OF ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF BEDFORD.
AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY.
SO NOW HE IS IN COMPLIANCE BECAUSE THERE IS NO SIGN.
SO I THINK THAT WENT TO MR. MORRISON'S POINT OF, HAD HE HAD THE TRUCK FACING A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, THERE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN AN ISSUE BECAUSE NO ONE WOULD'VE SEEN IT.
BUT BECAUSE ON THE DAY THAT HE WAS GIVEN THE NOTICE, HE HAD, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHEN THE PICTURE WAS TAKEN AND HE WAS NOT IN COMPLIANCE UNDER THE CODE OF ORDINANCES.
SO WE CAN DECIDE THIS, WE CAN'T DECIDE THIS ISSUE? YES, IT IS AGAIN, WE'RE, I BELIEVE WE'RE HERE TO DISCUSS THE APPEAL.
NOT, NOT WHETHER THE SIGN WAS TAKEN DOWN OR NOT.
DID, IS THAT CORRECT? DID I, DID I GET THAT RIGHT? WE ARE HERE TO DECIDE WHETHER THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION WAS CORRECT AND BEING GIVEN TO MR. STERN ON THE DATE IN QUESTION.
DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? DO WE HAVE A, UH, DO WE HAVE A MOTION? DO WE HAVE A MOTION BEFORE US TO THE MOTION TO CLOSE DISCUSSION CLO WELL, THE DISCLOSE DISCUSSION AND TO, UH, UH, HAVE A, UH, BE TWO THINGS.
A, WE NEED A MOTION TO CLOSE DISCUSSION, AND THEN IT WOULD THEN AFTER THAT, A, A MOTION OF HOW TO, TO, UH, DISPENSE WITH THIS MATTER IN FRONT OF US.
SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO CLOSE DISCUSSION OF THE BOARD.
DO WE HAVE A SECOND? AND HAVE A SECOND.
UH, WE ARE NOW IN A, UH, THE PORTION OF, UH, MAKING A MOTION TO EITHER, UH, DENY OR GRANT THE APPEAL BEFORE US.
UH, IS ANYBODY READY TO, UH, MAKE A MOTION? I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE VOTE ON THE, UH, APPEAL BEFORE US.
WE VOTE TO, UH, APPROVE OR DENY.
I'M TRYING TO DO IT CORRECTLY.
SO I MAKE, I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION.
I'M MAKING A MOTION THAT WE NOW VOTE ON THE APPEAL BEFORE US TO DENY OR ACCEPT.
I THINK WE COULD ASK THE LAWYER, BUT I THINK WE USUALLY HAVE A MOTION TO EITHER, TO MOTION, TO APPROVE, APPROVE OR SO, OR WE HAVE A MOTION TO DISAPPROVE.
IT'S, SO IT'S THE MOTION IS ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
SO, SO YOU CAN, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION ON THE APPEAL BEFORE, UH, I'D LIKE TO MAKE
[01:10:01]
A MOTION TO VOTE TO ACCEPT THE TO WE ARE, SORRY.SO WE ARE MAKING A MOTION TO EITHER A, DENY THE APPEAL, OR B, TO APPROVE THE APPEAL.
SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION ON THE APPEAL BEFORE US TO TAKE A VOTE ON WHETHER WE ARE GOING TO GRANT THE APPEAL.
IS THAT RIGHT? SO WE ARE JUST VOTING TO, SO IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE MOTION SHOULD BE, OR THE APPEAL SHOULD BE DENIED, OR IF IT SHOULD BE APPROVED.
SO IF YOU THINK THAT, SO DO ONE OR THE OTHER.
AND THEN EVERYONE VOTES ON THAT.
I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE VOTE ON THE APPEAL.
BE VOTE ON DENYING THE APPEAL BEFORE US.
WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT FOR ME?
SO WE HAVE A MOTION, UH, TO DISAPPROVE THE APPEAL OR TO DENY THE APPEAL, I SHOULD SAY.
DO WE HAVE A SECOND TO THAT? DOES ANYBODY WISH TO SECOND THAT MOTION TO DENY THE APPEAL? UH, CAN I, UH, CAN I SECOND IT OR AS THE CHAIRMAN, OR DO I HAVE TO BE, UH, MOVED ON THAT YOU CAN, I'LL SECOND THE MOTION TO DENY THE APPEAL.
UH, ARE WE, I THINK THE NEXT PHASE IS, IS DOES ANYBODY WISH TO DISCUSS THE MOTION? ARE WE READY FOR A VOTE? WE'RE ALREADY IN THE PROCESS OF VOTING.
UH, IN THAT CASE, ALL THOSE WHO, UH, WISH TO DENY THE APPEAL SAY AYE.
ALL THOSE WHO WOULD, UH, UH, ARE AGAINST DENYING THE APPEAL IS NOW THEIR TIME TO SAY, SAY THAT.
SO YOU'RE VOTING WITH YOU GUYS.
SO WE HAVE 1, 2, 3, WE HAVE FOUR PEOPLE WHO ARE VOTING TO DENY THE APPEAL AND ONE ABSTAINING.
WITH THAT, UH, I BELIEVE, UH, THAT'S IT.
SAY DOW, DO WE NEED A MOTION TO CLOSE THE HEARING? YES, SIR.
CAN I SEEK LEGAL COUNSEL? I'M SORRY.
UM, I, I'M JUST, I JUST WANNA DOUBLE CHECK.
I WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE DOING THIS BY THE BOOK AUTUMN, AS FAR AS ABSTENTION, UM, ARE, IS THAT AN ACCEPTABLE, DO WE NEED TO STATE, WHY DO WE NEED TO STATE ANYTHING BEYOND JUST SIMPLE ABSTENTION? NO.
UH, SO WE'VE DENIED THE APPEAL AND I BELIEVE THE NEXT THING ON OUR AGENDA IS, UH, UH, WHETHER WE CLOSE THE MEETING OR NOT.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE TO DISCUSS WITH THAT? UH, IT'S TIME TO, UH, WE HAVE A MOTION TO CLOSE THE MEETING TONIGHT FOR ADJOURNMENT.
WE HAVE ONE PERSON WHO'S I'LL SECOND IT.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? CLOSING THE MOTION SAY AYE.